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[scriver]

So Ireland isn't part (of the geographical term) of Britain/British Isles?

[TD1]

Nope. Hence Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

However, Northern Ireland is British, just not a part of Great Britain, if you understand me.

[Owlbread]

So Ireland isn't part (of the geographical term) of Britain/British Isles?

"Britain" is not a geographic term, it is an unofficial political term. I tend to use it to refer to the UK + overseas territories but that usage is very idiomatic.

Irish people of a more distinctly Republican persuasion (as opposed to Irish people of a more British/Unionist persuasion, like Th4DwArfY1) are often inclined to dispute the idea that Ireland is part of the British Isles. They say it has an Imperial sound to it and would rather give it a name like the Anglo-Celtic Isles and other things like that.

"British Isles" is a pretty politically loaded term in a lot of respects. Most people would agree with that. Nowadays academics and politically correct historians will try to avoid using "British Isles", instead replacing it with "these Isles" and such. I always thought that Ireland is a part of the British Isles (or whatever they're called), just not Great Britain.

[TD1]

Eh, I don't call myself Irish. Suppose you could call that a loaded term, too. Irish can be used for both sides of the border, but those "Of the British/Unionist persuasion" usually say Northern Irish, as a form of separation. Technically, it's the island of Ireland and therefore I may be called Irish, but it's not the only term used, and people call me Irish so many times that it annoys me. I don't see myself as Irish, I see myself as British/Northern Irish. Gotta wonder why people put such emphasis on titles, but I suppose it's a matter of principle.

But I agree with the rest.

[Owlbread]

Technically, it's the island of Ireland and therefore I may be called Irish, but it's not the only term used, and people call me Irish so many times that it annoys me.

But sir, you are an Irishman. Same as a Canadian is North American and a Swedish person is Scandinavian. I am a British person for the same reason, regardless of whether my country is independent or not. There is really no difference between you, an Irishman living in a part of Ireland that is controlled by the UK, and another person living just south of the border besides your passports.

I don't see myself as Irish, I see myself as British/Northern Irish. Gotta wonder why people put such emphasis on titles, but I suppose it's a matter of principle.

But you put enough emphasis on titles yourself given that you get annoyed when someone calls you Irish.

What's wrong with being Irish? As the late former paramilitary and Loyalist politician David Ervine said at one time, "why can't I be an Irish citizen of the United Kingdom, just like a Scottish or Welsh citizen of the United Kingdom"?

[TD1]

I was referring to myself as one who puts attention on title. Because of the principle.

Yes, a Canadian technically lives in North America. And of course there's nothing wrong in being Irish. I object to the mislabeling. There is the island of Ireland. In this regard I am Irish. But that's not what people think of. When you say "I'm Irish" thoughts jump to leprechauns. That is not my culture, and therefore I should not be defined by it.

And people do call Canadians American, but they do it for a laugh. A joke, if you will, to get their hackles raised. But they know the difference. They understand that what they see as American is different from Canadian. They understand the culture changes.

If everyone in North America were branded as American, no nod is given to a separate country and nation.

I see no reason why I should have myself defined, even if it is technically correct, as something I am not. Northern Irish is the equivalent of saying Canadian instead of American; preserves my difference and sense of self.

[Owlbread]

But that's not what people think of. When you say "I'm Irish" thoughts jump to leprechauns. That is not my culture, and therefore I should not be defined by it.

Nor is it an Irishman's culture. When I think of Ireland I think of a modern, predominantly Anglophone (for better or worse) very European country with a vibrant cultural scene. I think of a place to do business, I think of a place where I can see some pretty interesting Neolithic sites. When people think of Scotland, people think of guys in kilts, alcohol and Nessie. I know I actually wear kilts, drink whisky, speak Gaelic etc but that is mostly just a stereotype. Why would you let stereotypes get in the way? Surely the "Celtic"/Gaelic stuff is just one side to being Irish?

Is it perhaps the case that your thoughts are the ones that go to leprechauns and that this is in some way related to a sense of very mild prejudice and cultural cringe against your fellow Irishmen and the concept of Irishness? You say that there is nothing wrong with being Irish, yet your cultural cringe is very obvious.

And people do call Canadians American, but they do it for a laugh. A joke, if you will, to get their hackles raised. But they know the difference. They understand that what they see as American is different from Canadian. They understand the culture changes.

A very good friend of mine is from Brazil and he told me once that he was annoyed that the USA had "hijacked" the term "American" and that he was proud to be an American too.

If everyone in North America were branded as American, no nod is given to a separate country and nation.

But according to the majority of Unionists, Northern Ireland is not a separate country or a nation, it is a province. Most Loyalists define it expressly as that and get offended if you say that it is a nation because they maintain it is a province of "Britain".

I see no reason why I should have myself defined, even if it is technically correct, as something I am not. Northern Irish is the equivalent of saying Canadian instead of American; preserves my difference and sense of self.

But it is quite possible to describe yourself as both Irish and Northern Irish in the same way that people from Northern England describe themselves as Northerners. Northern England is roughly as culturally distinct from Southern England as Northern Ireland is from the rest of Ireland. I don't see what the problem is.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

And people do call Canadians American, but they do it for a laugh. A joke, if you will, to get their hackles raised. But they know the difference. They understand that what they see as American is different from Canadian. They understand the culture changes.

A very good friend of mine is from Brazil and he told me once that he was annoyed that the USA had "hijacked" the term "American" and that he was proud to be an American too.

We didn't hijack anything. The USA was the first colonial nation to gain independence, and "America" is explicitly in our name. It isn't in any of the others. They may inhabit the greater continent of America, but only Americans are Americans. It's been our recognized demonym since the founding. Only "Columbian" was even considered as an alternative in the early days, and we sure as hell aren't taking it now.

[Owlbread]

We didn't hijack anything. The USA was the first colonial nation to gain independence, and "America" is explicitly in our name. It isn't in any of the others. They may inhabit the greater continent of America, but only Americans are Americans. It's been our recognized demonym since the founding. Only "Columbian" was even considered as an alternative in the early days, and we sure as hell aren't taking it now.

I'm just quoting what he said, I don't see it as a hijacked thing myself. He stated very clearly that he identified as both a Brazilian and an American.

[kaijyuu]

I'm always hesitant to use "America" to refer to the USA for similar reasons.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

We didn't hijack anything. The USA was the first colonial nation to gain independence, and "America" is explicitly in our name. It isn't in any of the others. They may inhabit the greater continent of America, but only Americans are Americans. It's been our recognized demonym since the founding. Only "Columbian" was even considered as an alternative in the early days, and we sure as hell aren't taking it now.

I'm just quoting what he said, I don't see it as a hijacked thing myself. He stated very clearly that he identified as both a Brazilian and an American.

I know. It just annoys me when the other nations of the American continent get all up in arms about it. It's so typical.

[Owlbread]

I know. It just annoys me when the other nations of the American continent get all up in arms about it. It's so typical.

The fact that enough of them get up in arms about it to annoy you disproves some parts of Th4DwArfY1's argument.

[stabbymcstabstab]

So what, were the first independent nation in the Americas as such we got first dibs, besides what else are you going to call citizens of the United States of America?

[majikero]

What about the Federal Republic of Central America?

[Owlbread]

So what, were the first independent nation in the Americas as such we got first dibs, besides what else are you going to call citizens of the United States of America?

The USA wasn't the first independent nation in the Americas, it was just the first independent white nation.