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[LordSlowpoke]

For every factory that's driven out of Europe by said regulations, another's going to open in China or elsewhere and produce ten times the CO2 it could have back in Europe because it's simply cheaper that way.

Europe's export industry is pretty much gone anyway. Any industry that remains either supplies domestically, or produces specialist resources.

Hence, import taxes would work, and can perfectly prevent factories being relocated.

Also, China is suffering from significant ecological collapse. Freedom of emissions won't last. (It's diminishing rapidly already.)

Import taxes would make all the little goods that we already get from China because our manufacturing sector is nonexistent roughly on par with the pricing of homemade goods, which would not allow me to own at least half the things I do at the present. Which is why I dislike the idea. :V

Selfish, innit? But that'd happen to more people than just myself. Doubt people would be willing to increase wages to make up for the cost of living, too - they hardly do so to make up for inflation.

Energy isn't cheap to transport and western countries have electricity by the bucketload compared to places with weak regulations.

You can argue that regulation hamstrings it somewhat and you'd be right, but western countries can sure as hell afford to do so.

Europe has overproduction. It's cheap to produce, but expensive because utilities have to keep afloat with nobody actually buying it. Hurts the consumer more than anyone else - but hey, all for the good of the green energy producers who thanks to Germany are virtually imploding in volume, while ignoring the rest of the market entirely.

[Guardian G.I.]

I've heard a lot of that sort of talk from people in Russia and, granted, our governments do misinform and often have monopolies on our media but in Russia it is far, far worse.

The idea that the West is out to get Russia seems to be very strong even today. You should hold remind yourselves that if there is a "West" (presumably NATO), the last thing they want is to harm Russia or Russians in any way or exploit you. They want a Russia that is a part of their power bloc. If Putin and other radical Russian Imperialists/Eurasianists stop trying to form another Eastern Bloc/Warsaw (Almaty?) Pact of ex-Soviet countries then there will be no problem.

Russia fought numerous wars with the West and lost tens (if not hundreds) of millions of lives. It's no wonder that after such a long history of devastating conflicts, which were almost always started by the Western powers, Russians and the Russian government (with the exception of the cosmopolitan liberals) don't trust the Western world, regard all Western politicians as scheming backstabbers and prepare for another war with the Western countries.

The new Eastern Bloc built by horrible Russian imperialists that you've mentioned isn't an offensive bloc. It is a defensive bloc, created in preparation for the day when armies of the Western world will once again go on a crusade against Russia, like they did decades and centuries ago. Ordinary Westerners might think that now they have nothing against Russia, and Russians are just paranoid, but when the interests of the West and Russia will clash and a new war will be inevitable, the unbiased Western mass media will once again remind the ordinary Westerners that have nothing against Russia that those Russian barbarians threaten the free world and must be stopped. Ordinary Westerners that have nothing against Russia will believe it, and will go to Russia to bring the light of Western civilization to those savage lands, just like ordinary Germans that had nothing against Russia went to Russia in 1941 in order to do the same, or like ordinary Englishmen in 1853, or like ordinary Frenchmen in 1812... And after the end of the war and after the deaths of another millions of Russians, Westerners will argue decades in the future that that the West have no interest in harming Russia or Russians, and all that anti-Western sentiment in Russia is stirred by an imperialist Russian dictator.

[10ebbor10]

To be fair, during that period (approx. 200 year) every other European nation invaded every other European nation in the surroundings in one way or another.

In addition to that, all those wars were giant military catastrophes.

[lordcooper]

all those wars were giant military catastrophes.

Well yeah, that's what wars are.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Some interesting, yet unconfirmed news: Hundreds of pro-government  thugs detected around American Embassy. Do this morons understand that they will be shot down if they try anything funny? Maybe their puppetmasters want to show that Americans are no different to our Police? Or they want to imitate wild Ukrainian Nazis attacking USA?

That would be their most moronic decision ever made, but they made so many crazy  decisions that I will not be surprised

[XXSockXX]

Russia fought numerous wars with the West and lost tens (if not hundreds) of millions of lives. It's no wonder that after such a long history of devastating conflicts, which were almost always started by the Western powers, Russians and the Russian government (with the exception of the cosmopolitan liberals) don't trust the Western world, regard all Western politicians as scheming backstabbers and prepare for another war with the Western countries.

You could make that same argument for Germany vs France and for most other European countries in some constellation.
The thing is we have moved beyond that. Trust has to be built over time, but not even trying is clearly not going to help.

[Valikdu]

*a post*

That's funny. Each time your side does something really stupid and fails, the perpetrators are disowned as "pro-government thugs/provocators/Titushkas". But if there's a success, they're "glorious revolutionaries".

[LordSlowpoke]

*a post*

*another post*

...ranger are you actually whitewashing things

you know i weren't rude enough to put it into words but someone did it for me so yeah

[XXSockXX]

The entire opposition, the moderates too, talks about provocateurs, so their existence is pretty much confirmed. What's done by provocateurs or by violent protesters is less clear, but they do exist.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

LordSlowpoke
I am not a journalist, I am not a neutral observer, I am a man with a rather radical political agenda. Everyone in that thread understands that and considers that analyzing my words. I am far from being objective. It's obvious. One thing I can say for sure - I never lied in this thread, I am telling what I consider to be the truth. You may call it whitewashing as much as you wish

[WarRoot]

Valikdu are you Russian? If so what do you think about the the power plant deal between Hungary and Russia ? (Bit of an old news and I guess others could chime in if they want to )

[Comrade P.]

WarRoot, I'm russky, too, if you're wondering.

So, I've read that article. Hm. Can't actually understand the opposition's point. Russia loans them a whole damn lot of money and builds them a reactor for their own needs and leaves it to their property, providing Hungary workplaces and energy source. Isn't government supposed to make decisions like that? I mean, why do they want to involve wide masses to this?

[Helgoland]

-snip-

Look, everybody in this thread knows UR's in Svoboda, everyone knows his views, everyone knows his posts have a certain spin. It's fine.

Valikadu, on the other hand... Let's just say that UR has supplied some interesting perspectives on the current processes in Ukraine.

[Max White]

Yea, I for one think his ranting about actually wanting civil war is off the deep end, but hey, interesting to hear about revolution from the horses mouth.

[Valikdu]

Valikdu are you Russian? If so what do you think about the the power plant deal between Hungary and Russia ? (Bit of an old news and I guess others could chime in if they want to )

I don't really know anything about how the price of constructing a nuclear plant is calculated. So... business as usual? Can't say how good or bad that deal is.

I understand how people in Hungary would be uneasy about being dependant on another country for their nuclear infrastructure, but that's apparently not new.