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[10ebbor10]

Doubt that's going to work.

[Dutchling]

How would Scottish independence benefit the British people?

[MonkeyHead]

It would probably bring it home to those that havent already realised it, but thefre is no real thing as a British person... we are Emglish, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish, with many subdivisions even within them. Nobody I know (of any "British" nationality") would describe themselves as British ahead of one of the 4 mentioned nationalities.

[shadenight123]

It would probably bring it home to those that havent already realised it, but thefre is no real thing as a British person... we are Emglish, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish, with many subdivisions even within them. Nobody I know (of any "British" nationality") would describe themselves as British ahead of one of the 4 mentioned nationalities.

You mean like there's no real 'Italian' either.
We are Ligurian, Sicilian, Lombardian, Savoy-ish, Roman, Tourin, Umbrian, Romagnan, Friulian, Siennan and so on and on...
And yet we're aiming for the European unification.
...
Roman Empire Reborn, take two.
...

[Guardian G.I.]

I doubt that Scotland will get independence in the first place.
In my opinion, this whole referendum thing will be very similar to the independence referendum in Quebec of 1995 - the pro-independence movement will get the democratic result of fourty-something percent of the votes, and Scotland will remain to be British territory. After that, the Scottish independence campaign will quickly fade into obscurity, just like the one in Quebec.

[Owlbread]

I doubt that Scotland will get independence in the first place.
In my opinion, this whole referendum thing will be very similar to the independence referendum in Quebec of 1995 - the pro-independence movement will get the democratic result of fourty-something percent of the votes, and Scotland will remain to be British territory. After that, the Scottish independence campaign will quickly fade into obscurity, just like the one in Quebec.

And what do you base your theory on? What gives you that impression?

How would Scottish independence benefit the British people?

I think we'll find out after 2016. Maybe when Scotland is retaining things like its lack of tuition fees, a stronger NHS and carrying out more progressive policies than in the South the "British" people could start asking themselves why they can't enjoy the same thing.

[Guardian G.I.]

I doubt that Scotland will get independence in the first place.
In my opinion, this whole referendum thing will be very similar to the independence referendum in Quebec of 1995 - the pro-independence movement will get the democratic result of fourty-something percent of the votes, and Scotland will remain to be British territory. After that, the Scottish independence campaign will quickly fade into obscurity, just like the one in Quebec.

And what do you base your theory on? What gives you that impression?

I don't think that London would allow a independence referendum to take place in Scotland if it would be perfectly clear that the pro-independence campaign would easily win. For example, look at how the Spanish government refused to allow Catalonia to hold a referendum, where the majority of people according to opinion polls is for independence.

Also:

I don't know if that's a feeling still left over from Soviet times

It has nothing to do with Soviet times. That's the voice of the current Russian propaganda

The anti-Western sentiment in Russia wasn't caused by Russian propaganda. It began in the 1990s, when America's best friend Boris Yeltsin was the president of Russia. There were practically no anti-Western reports in the Russian media back then.

Russian media began to broadcast anti-American and anti-Western propaganda during the war in South Ossetia in 2008, and until then, it was very cautious in criticizing the West. The Russian government tried not to offend the Western governments too much during Putin's first and second terms in office.

[Owlbread]

I don't think that London would allow a independence referendum to take place in Scotland if it would be perfectly clear that the pro-independence campaign would easily win. For example, look at how the Spanish government refused to allow Catalonia to hold a referendum, where the majority of people according to opinion polls is for independence.

But nobody said that the pro-independence campaign is going to win easily. There is all to play for at the moment with the polls still against independence, but shifting towards the pro-independence camp in the last month or so. The big issue will be voter turnout - those against independence are far more likely to stay at home rather than actually get out and vote. The pro independence camp on the other hand has a very strong 30% that will get out and vote come rain or shine.

The key has always been to convince another 10-20% of the merits and by my experience (not necessarily shown in polls) we are succeeding on that front. People are more open minded about independence now than they have been in years. Everything is just ready for the big offensives of 2014 in the run-up to the vote.

There are also very important cultural differences at work here; Spain was a Fascist/Autocratic Nationalist state just 40 years ago, thus ideas like simply refusing referenda or blocking democracy isn't considered such a terrible thing. The British government knows however that if they tried to block our referendum they would be seen as interfering, causing popular opinion to shift firmly against them. We would probably win the referendum if they did something perfidious like that. HMG know they should step out of this and let it take its course, providing support to the indigenous Westminster parties in Scotland. That is exactly what they are doing.

Part of me actually wants Westminster to try something like blocking us. It would make life a lot easier for campaigners.

[Helgoland]

You mean like there's no real 'Italian' either.
We are Ligurian, Sicilian, Lombardian, Savoy-ish, Roman, Tourin, Umbrian, Romagnan, Friulian, Siennan and so on and on...
And yet we're aiming for the European unification.
...
Roman Empire Reborn, take two.
...

Eeeehhh... What are you trying to say?

[Dutchling]

Isn't Savoy French?

[ChairmanPoo]

There are also very important cultural differences at work here; Spain was a Fascist/Autocratic Nationalist state just 40 years ago, thus ideas like simply refusing referenda or blocking democracy isn't considered such a terrible thing.

Eeh, it IS regarded as pretty bad you know. That the goverment pulls shit like this (or like the abortion law. Or the constitutional reform they carried out with the so-called sociaists back when e latter were still the govermwbt) does not equate public approval

I'll grant you that a disturbingly large minority and way too many politicans are a-ok with this shit, which is further proof tjat the Transition was half-assed. As if having as hed of state the guy that the late fascist dictator designated as succesor wasnt enough of a clue

[Ukrainian Ranger]

The anti-Western sentiment in Russia wasn't caused by Russian propaganda. It began in the 1990s,
Russian media began to broadcast anti-American and anti-Western propaganda during the war in South Ossetia in 2008, and until then, it was very cautious in criticizing the West. The Russian government tried not to offend the Western governments too much during Putin's first and second terms in office.

I still remember "Anti-Russian USA funded Orange Revolution" from Russian TV back in 2004.

And here are the result of the propaganda like that

It began in the 1990s, when America's best friend Boris Yeltsin was the president of Russia.

Everyone who is anti-(neo)USSR is labeled as agent from the West. Starting from Gorbachev and Yeltsin ending with just any opposition party inside Russia and unfriendly governments in neighboring countries.

[Loud Whispers]

...
Roman Empire Reborn, take two.
...

Eeeehhh... What are you trying to say?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Y'all a bunch of commies

The only hope for Europe is to go full Empire.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

_{Six billion hours in ms paint}

The new republic will rise. Too long we have trusted in old laws that serve the people not, the die have been cast! HAIL CAESAR!

[Owlbread]

Seemingly it is not just Islamic Extremists that are disrupting the Olympics. Now the Russians must deal with "Anonymous Caucasus".

Here is a long video from them where they criticise the Russian government's decision to hold the Olympics in Circassia, citing the genocide. They have sworn to disrupt the Olympics in any way they can.

I did like one of the posters in the video though - "Putin, don't build your credibility on Circassian graves".

[Boksi]

I did like one of the posters in the video though - "Putin, don't build your credibility on Circassian graves".

Well, he doesn't have any indian burial sites to build it upon. Gotta make do with what you have.