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[scriver]

meanwhile, swedes slam books based on how the ads feel

Are you daft? Did you even read the article? The authors are well known xenophobics.

[kaijyuu]

I don't see anyone calling for the book to be banned or anything.

As for the ad itself, people have a right to complain about what is in their preferred newspaper and the newspaper has the right to decide to print (or not print) what it wants.

All in all it looks like the situation was handled well. No freedoms of speech were impaired and everyone got to say what they wanted.

[Yannanth]

1.1 million residence permits? That's enormous. Sweden had a population of less than 10 million last time I checked.

[scriver]

Like it said in the article, most would be re-admissions.

These are xenophobic conspiracists with an agenda (putting themselves in power), folks. They have absolutely nill credibility.

[XXSockXX]

Actually all the article says about the authors is

Both Sandelin and Arnstberg are established voices among those critical of multiculturalism and Swedish immigration policy and their book has been warmly received on extremist websites and by far-right bloggers in Sweden.

.
So they're critical of immigration policy, which doesn't make them xenophobes, AND right wingers like the book, which is kinda unavoidable if you're critical of immigration policies, but not necessarily the author's fault. Not everybody who is unhappy with immigration policies is a racist.
I can't speak Swedish, but Google seems to think the authors are a journalist and a professor of ethnology. How do you make a freaking conspiracy out of that?

[smirk]

Actually all the article says about the authors is

Both Sandelin and Arnstberg are established voices among those critical of multiculturalism and Swedish immigration policy and their book has been warmly received on extremist websites and by far-right bloggers in Sweden.

.
So they're critical of immigration policy, which doesn't make them xenophobes, AND right wingers like the book, which is kinda unavoidable if you're critical of immigration policies, but not necessarily the author's fault. Not everybody who is unhappy with immigration policies is a racist.
I can't speak Swedish, but Google seems to think the authors are a journalist and a professor of ethnology. How do you make a freaking conspiracy out of that?

Critical of immigration policy isn't so bad; it's the "critical of multiculturalism" that makes me leery. Not conspiracy-level suspicion, but advocating cultural segregation isn't something I'm a huge fan of. Too much "us vs them" to be constructive.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I "love" how nationalists and xenophobes became synonymous

[XXSockXX]

Critical of immigration policy isn't so bad; it's the "critical of multiculturalism" that makes me leery. Not conspiracy-level suspicion, but advocating cultural segregation isn't something I'm a huge fan of. Too much "us vs them" to be constructive.

The opposite of multiculturalism isn't segregation. Basically it depends how you define multiculturalism. Many people seem to think eating spicy food once a month is multiculturalism (I'm exaggerating, I know). But there is also the brand of multiculturalism where people have advocated that muslim immigrants should have sharia courts or that it's fundamentally wrong to force immigrants to learn our language, even if they can't find a job and live on welfare. That second kind is what I usually understand by multiculturalism, and that is the kind I think one can very rightfully be critical of.

[kaijyuu]

* kaijyuu sees no reason to force anyone to learn the most common language of a place.

It only really harms them. And maybe annoys racists who don't want to hear people talk in other languages or *gasp* see signs/menus/etc written in other languages.


Also I'm not too well versed in Sweden's immigration policy, but I really doubt anyone can live off welfare without being a citizen, and I don't think they allow people to become citizens if they can't support themselves.

[scriver]

Actually all the article says about the authors is

Both Sandelin and Arnstberg are established voices among those critical of multiculturalism and Swedish immigration policy and their book has been warmly received on extremist websites and by far-right bloggers in Sweden.

.
So they're critical of immigration policy, which doesn't make them xenophobes, AND right wingers like the book, which is kinda unavoidable if you're critical of immigration policies, but not necessarily the author's fault. Not everybody who is unhappy with immigration policies is a racist.
I can't speak Swedish, but Google seems to think the authors are a journalist and a professor of ethnology. How do you make a freaking conspiracy out of that?

I'm Swedish. They're well known.

I "love" how nationalists and xenophobes became synonymous

Nationalists made them synonymous.

But there is also the brand of multiculturalism where people have advocated that muslim immigrants should have sharia courts

This has literally never ever happened or been advocated by anyone other than Islamist extremists.

* kaijyuu sees no reason to force anyone to learn the most common language of a place.

It only really harms them. And maybe annoys racists who don't want to hear people talk in other languages or *gasp* see signs/menus/etc written in other languages.


Also I'm not too well versed in Sweden's immigration policy, but I really doubt anyone can live off welfare without being a citizen, and I don't think they allow people to become citizens if they can't support themselves.

Current research has repeatedly shown Sweden has gone plus, economically speaking, for every immigrant we've accepted. Even if there are people that gamble or abuse the system (and there sure as hell are a lot of Swedes doing that as well), the overall result is still economically beneficial.

[smirk]

Critical of immigration policy isn't so bad; it's the "critical of multiculturalism" that makes me leery. Not conspiracy-level suspicion, but advocating cultural segregation isn't something I'm a huge fan of. Too much "us vs them" to be constructive.

The opposite of multiculturalism isn't segregation. Basically it depends how you define multiculturalism. Many people seem to think eating spicy food once a month is multiculturalism (I'm exaggerating, I know). But there is also the brand of multiculturalism where people have advocated that muslim immigrants should have sharia courts or that it's fundamentally wrong to force immigrants to learn our language, even if they can't find a job and live on welfare. That second kind is what I usually understand by multiculturalism, and that is the kind I think one can very rightfully be critical of.

Hmm. That's a pretty extreme definition of multiculturalism I think. Not one I've ever run into personally or even witnessed secondhand (maybe once or twice?). Mostly I know it as "being open to and actively pursuing other cultural experiences/not automatically assuming your culture is the superbest". So being critical of that would be a lot closer to segregation territory.

Yeah, definitions. I'm also in the US, so possibly your type of multiculturalism is more common across the pond? Scary thought.

[scriver]

Critical of immigration policy isn't so bad; it's the "critical of multiculturalism" that makes me leery. Not conspiracy-level suspicion, but advocating cultural segregation isn't something I'm a huge fan of. Too much "us vs them" to be constructive.

The opposite of multiculturalism isn't segregation. Basically it depends how you define multiculturalism. Many people seem to think eating spicy food once a month is multiculturalism (I'm exaggerating, I know). But there is also the brand of multiculturalism where people have advocated that muslim immigrants should have sharia courts or that it's fundamentally wrong to force immigrants to learn our language, even if they can't find a job and live on welfare. That second kind is what I usually understand by multiculturalism, and that is the kind I think one can very rightfully be critical of.

Hmm. That's a pretty extreme definition of multiculturalism I think. Not one I've ever run into personally or even witnessed secondhand (maybe once or twice?). Mostly I know it as "being open to and actively pursuing other cultural experiences/not automatically assuming your culture is the superbest". So being critical of that would be a lot closer to segregation territory.

Yeah, definitions. I'm also in the US, so possibly your type of multiculturalism is more common across the pond? Scary thought.

No, that's exactly it's defined as of here as well. Basically "tolerate that people celebrate other stuff than Christmas and don't hate them because of it".

[XXSockXX]

This has literally never ever happened or been advocated by anyone other than Islamist extremists.

Eh, what? At least in Germany there have been debates about that. There was that case where a domestic violence case was rejected because the judge thought beating your wife is a cultural thing for muslims. And there are so-called sharia mediators, who privately settle disputes between families, even about violent crimes.

* kaijyuu sees no reason to force anyone to learn the most common language of a place.

It only really harms them. And maybe annoys racists who don't want to hear people talk in other languages or *gasp* see signs/menus/etc written in other languages.


Also I'm not too well versed in Sweden's immigration policy, but I really doubt anyone can live off welfare without being a citizen, and I don't think they allow people to become citizens if they can't support themselves.

I don't know about Sweden either, but yes you can be eligible to welfare in other EU countries as a EU citizen and at least in Germany there are circumstances where you can get welfare even as a non-EU citizen. (That is kind of the difference between immigration debates in the EU and the US, here it's "immigrants live off our welfare state" instead of "immigrants take our jobs".)

The language thing is mostly about this: Many (muslim) immigrants marry someone from back home who does not speak our language. Thus their children don't learn it at home and now a 3rd generation immigrant speaks German worse than his grandfather. Also the spouse is unable to work, because you're not gonna find a lot of work here if you don't speak the language, thus the family gets welfare benefits.

You don't have to be able to support yourself to become a citizen, if you are born here. (Then there's also the law of return, but I don't think it applies to many people anymore). Though as I said, many residents are also eligible for certain benefits.

[Sheb]

I really doubt that domestic violence case would hold in appeal, and private mediators are something, well, private. Families are free to appeal to the courts if they don't like the mediation.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

scriver
I just want to be sure, are we talking about guys from this party or about some more radical guys?

the overall result is still economically beneficial.

Do you think that is the only thing that matter?