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[Owlbread]

I think everything was pretty morally grey back then. There were heroes and villains among the UPA.

[LordSlowpoke]

This article tells you many important things, if you can read cyrillic. I do not.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Events in 1943 Volinhia  are quite blurry and not one that are pleasant to discuss. It is a shameful page of Ukrainian history

It was a pure chaos there: Wermaht, Schutzmannschaft, pro-soviet partisans, NKVD groups, UPA, Armia Krajowa , various self defense groups, gangs and that's all during the bloody war and after decades of not warm relationships between Poles and Ukrainians. It ignited at one point and it's hard to tell who exactly started first and how much involved in warcrimes they were

It's rather sad when Polish position sounds like; - out of nowhere bloodthirsty UPA started the massacre and used the worst possible methods to do so, while we did nothing and Ukrainian civilian losses or use kindergarten logic - they started first.

[Kicior]

First of all - wow, everyone maintains cool composure, that's nice.

Although to be honest, you also had massacre of Ukrainian by Poles and stuff.

Yeah in the 17th century so we're square now hurr durr (not sure if I have to mark sarcasm but I think I'll better do it)

It's rather sad when Polish position sounds like; - out of nowhere bloodthirsty UPA started the massacre and used the worst possible methods to do so, while we did nothing and Ukrainian civilian losses or use kindergarten logic - they started first.

I am not saying "FILTHY UKRAINIANS KNEEL BEFORE RIGHTFUL POLES WHO HAVE NEVER HURT ANYONE, KNEEL AND BEG FOR MERCY". History between Poles and Ukrainians was kinda shitty (I wonder what would have happened had Kiev Offensive gotten more support...) but IMHO it doesn't justify mass killings.
The thing I have problem with is that Austrians don't have monuments of Hitler, Germans don't have monuments of Himmler, Serbs don't have monumentsof Karadžić but apparently Ukrainians see nothing wrong in Bandera's monument (or commemoration of 14. SS-Freiwilligen Division "Galizien")
It's rather sad when people taking part in

a shameful page of Ukrainian history

are called

Heroes

It is rather sad when pretending that nothing has happened is percieved as a good way to get rid of problems.
It is rather sad that this method might actually work.

[10ebbor10]

Honestly, Europe has many black days in history. Pretty much every country committed one form of atrocity one way or another.

On a side note, as far as I can see, the UPA's not just about the massacres, though they did play a large part in them.

After Galicia had been taken over by the Red Army, many units of UPA abandoned the anti-Polish course of action and some even began cooperating with local Polish anti-communist resistance against the Soviets and the NKVD. Many Ukrainians, who had nothing to do with earlier massacres against the Poles, seeking to defend themselves against communists, joined UPA after the war on both the Soviet and Polish sides of the border.[80] Local agreements between the UPA and the Polish post-AK units began to appear as early as April/May 1945 and in some places lasted until 1947, for example in the Lublin region. One of the most notable joint actions of UPA and the post-AK Freedom and Independence (WiN) organization took place in May 1946, when the two partisan formations coordinated their attack and took over of the city of Hrubieszów.[81]

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Kicior
First, there are no actual proofs that high command of UPA ever ordered to start a massacre. Neither there are official ideology that supports mass murder in OUN ideology.  There are some info that Dmytro Klyachkivsky (roughly colonel) ordered that, still nothing that I'll call 100% proof. But there are proofs that Klyachkivsky went against orders and created partisan squads earlier than it was planned by general strategy

The thing I have problem with is that Austrians don't have monuments of Hitler, Germans don't have monuments of Himmler, Serbs don't have monumentsof Karadžić but apparently Ukrainians see nothing wrong in Bandera's monument 

Sorry, but comparing Bandera to Hitler is too much and, in fact, insulting
No international court called Bandera a criminal, unlike the names you listed.
In no way Bandera could participate in 1943 events because he was in German concentration camp during that period. He was a terrorist (or, from another point of view: freedom fighter) but he never did anything that would qualify for the crimes against humanity

or commemoration of 14. SS-Freiwilligen Division "Galizien"

While SS is a criminal organization , but 14th division is a field division. They weren't SS members, they were under SS command. No  proofs of it's participation in any massacres. After the war many of division members got Canadian citizenship, thing rather impossible for Nazi Criminals
They bravely and honestly fought for my country in a way they found right, while they made a mistake (BTW OUN was officially against volunteering to the division) they deserve a good memory no less than Ukrainians that fought for Soviets.

It is rather sad when pretending that nothing has happened is percieved as a good way to get rid of problems.
It is rather sad that this method might actually work.

You see... Your logic is faulty here .
1) In a same way I may say that Polish AK are criminals because some units participated in killing Ukrainian civilian populace and anyone who calls them heroes wants to kill innocent Ukrainians. That's absurd

2) You are mixing  "Organization as a whole are heroes" and "every member of an organization is a hero." UPA had scum in it's ranks. Why they were accepted? It's a luxury to not use any pair of hands that can take a rifle during the war. I am sure that any guerrilla army has same problem
And ordinary person can make war crimes in some situations, like coming in home village and seeing it burned or even "minor" stuff like Ukrainian\Polish Schutzmannschaft executed his relatives.

3) Flags among protesters don't mean : "Hey, let's go kill some Poles like UPA did"
Flags among protesters mean : "Like UPA we will not give up. If needed, we will fight for our freedom. "

[Loud Whispers]

Honestly, Europe has many black days in history. Pretty much every country committed one form of atrocity one way or another.

I think just about everyone except Switzerland and the dwarf countries across the world have at some time committed an atrocity. Big powers attract hungry autocrats.

[Descan]

Even Canada isn't safe.  We committed a form of cultural genocide against the First Nations peoples in the form of the residential schools.

[Owlbread]

The only reason we are alive today is because our ancestors at some point in our history were the exterminators, not the exterminated. I'm glad that nowadays we're self-aware enough that we can atone for those crimes and try to prevent them in the future.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No, the only reason we're alive today is because our ancestors were the survivors. While that can involve extermination, it does not by nature.

[scriver]

Yes, it does, because most likely, your ancestors were both the exterminators and the (almost) exterminated.

[Owlbread]

No, the only reason we're alive today is because our ancestors were the survivors. While that can involve extermination, it does not by nature.

Our ancestors were survivors and exterminators at at least one point in history, I am certain. I know mine were.

[Digital Hellhound]

To be fair, there's been a lot of assimilation going on too.

[Owlbread]

To be fair, there's been a lot of assimilation going on too.

Sometimes extermination and assimilation go hand in hand. Partial extermination here, partial assimilation there.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think just about everyone except Switzerland and the dwarf countries across the world have at some time committed an atrocity. Big powers attract hungry autocrats.

Wha...? You're not going to let the Swiss off the hook of nazi collaboration, are you?!