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[shadenight123]

Careful or you'll end up like Italy Chaos.

There is a quorum to reach in Italy too, but to reach it, parties form coalitions that then reach power to mantain the majority.
It is basically 'The government of the fat guys sitting on the comfy armchairs, who do what they can to remain on their comfy armchairs'.
True democracy shouldn't have a minimum percentage. Every party should have a voice, every ideal, every political decision.
Slows down democracy? Maybe, but isn't that the purpose of democracy? 'Everyone has a voice'?

[Chaoswizkid]

Thanks Shade. I was more asking about the whole multi-party system rather than specifically the percentage bit, although now I see that wasn't reflected in my choice of quotes. Oops.

I absolutely agree with you about democracy. That's why I'm so interested in multiple-party systems, because although we have a good number of political parties in the US, you have to rely on Russia Today to report on anything other than the two predominant ones (and maybe an Independent runner), which stifles their involvement.

I'm not really sure how the percentages work, though, unless those are roughly how many elected officials are in government for each faction. Unless Italy and Germany don't elect officials, they just get a number of representatives based on party votes? But then who chooses the representative? /doesn't know a thing
(And before anyone comes up with the whole "Google exists" thing, I'm just going to say that I will appreciate an explanation to my question here if anyone decides to give one)

Does anywhere in Europe have a tax-funded media outlet that focuses on democratic proceedings? I'm not talking government-controlled, just funded to actually support democracy by giving the public access to different political parties. I'd love to have to have something like that in the States, and with Europe's political climate there might be something like that so I figured I'd ask.

[shadenight123]

In Italy, the 'Party' gets to choose.

We simply vote the parties when the time comes, and bam, the parties choose who to put in power (There are actually 'moneys' to be made. If you enter a party, you pay tot euros -in Italy- and then if you get elected you pay 'support' to your party)
No wonders Italians brought organized crime to a new level.
We have an organized mafia on the television (Known as Rai), which forces Italians to pay a 'tot' every year as long as you have a television screen. It doesn't matter if you're using it for playstation rather than television...you have one, you've got to pay the Rai Tax. If you don't, they'll come into your home and place a thick iron sheet over your screen.
Yes. They will.

Rai is, by the way, the 'tax-funded democractic  media' with a 'tax' forced down Italian's throats and with every news being accurately filtered and delivered only after a more shocking one comes to pass.
I get 99% of my political information online, from online newspaper coming from at least five different countries.

And I'm subscribed to both neo-fascist AND neo-communist pages on facebook, because either way, if you want the truth you've got to find it out for yourself by checking both sides and then getting the middle ground.

[Alastar]

Germans get 2 votes in elections: a direct one for a local candidate, and one for a party. Second one is the one that matters for the numbers, first one is essentially "local candidate vs. marginal person on the party-wide list".
For the second vote to count at all, the party you vote for need to get either 5% of those, or to have 3 people with a direct mandate from the first vote.

It's a compromise to keep things from becoming unmanageable without raising the bar too high for new parties to establish themselves. I find the restrictions unappealing ideologically, but on the whole it works quite well.

[Loud Whispers]

And I'm subscribed to both neo-fascist AND neo-communist pages on facebook, because either way, if you want the truth you've got to find it out for yourself by checking both sides and then getting the middle ground.

Looking at two extremes on facebook is hardly the way to find truths in my opinion. Is the news situation that dire?

[shadenight123]

You either hear extremists or you hear of murders happening in towns...that is the level of the news in italy. It takes more columns to talk about how berlusconi goes whoring than the economic crysis.

[Sheb]

European country usually have publicly-founded broadcaster who have to give equal treatment to all parties, or give airtime according to the last election result.

France actually goes one step further and monitor every single news channel, making sure they are fair. They also ban any release of exit polls on election day until the voting booths are closed.

[Darvi]

Basically, shadeniht gets his news from commie nazis.

[shadenight123]

Half of the time, the other half it's you guys who deliver them.
Not much of a choice, one side refuses to deliver 'some' news, the other side 'goes down the extreme end' and hence, I have to look at at least two to three different sources to get a general picture.

Did you know we still have Fascism in Italy? It's a party called "Fascismo e Libertà" it's real, it exists, it's not illegal or unlawful, because Fascism that does NOT remove 'freedom' from the others is a legal and lawful party that CAN exist.

Hence, 'Fascist' isn't an insult. It's a definition.

I didn't know that until I stumbled upon it. Nobody said anything about it anywhere...nor did the schools, the newspapers or anyone else.
We have not one, not two, but SIX fascists parties (One of which even managed to get a man in the parliament).
We have, by the same token, Right-winged and Left-winged fascists.
And the funny thing is...

There are more Nazis in america now than in Germany.
...
Got to love the world. XD

[Loud Whispers]

"Tonally and in policy terms this was quite simply the most Left-wing speech made by a mainstream party leader in several decades. The key line didn't seem to register in the hall, but I suspect it is going to become a massive story. Those who own land and refuse to build on it, and ignore government orders, will see it stolen for housebuilding. Use it or lose it, he declared. That can only mean the government, or councils, swooping on land they want."

Having not actually seen the speech myself, I cannot vouch for its validity, but I can however provide a funny picture of Ed Miliband.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Owlbread]

I heard about that on the radio today. It's amazing how far up Ed's arse some of those BBC reporters are though in their descriptions of him, I felt sick by the end of the report after hearing him described as being "action-hero" like and shit.

It's certainly in contrast to Scottish Labour's policies up here where they believe we live in a "something for nothing society" and oppose universal benefits, and believe that our system of free prescription charges and free University education should be scrapped in favour of giving a bit of extra cash to colleges.

[Helgoland]

On the issue of the German 5% line, I fully support it. Just look at Weimar - democratic states are not there to act out the 'will of the people', but to keep all necessary institutions functioning - total democracy, with splinter parties and absurd coalitions, would make that an impossibility. We learned: We no longer have an Ersatz Kaiser, we have a much stronger parliament, and we have no splinter parties that are only out to damage the state. In this election, the 5% line kept the FDP (market liberals) and the AfD (anti-Euro right-wing populist asshats) out of the Bundestag. It may be undemocratic, but it keeps democracy working.

On the technical bits of the 5% line: In the elections, you give your first vote to a direct candidate (like a Congressman in the US, I guess) and your second vote (Zweitstimme) to a 'list', AKA a party. All the direct candidates, who usually are part of a list too, get into the Bundestag, and additional people from the lists get seats to make sure the composition of the Bundestag matches the shares of votes a list got via Zweitstimmen. However, if less than 5% of the Zweitstimmen go to a specific list, that list gets absolutely zero representatives except for direct mandates. (And apparently three direct mandates would get you there too, but direct mandates almost exclusively go to the big parties CDU and SPD - Hans-Christian Ströbele of the Greens being a notable exception. He, too, by the way, is an asshat.)

And yeah, we have broadcasting with public funds - they're responsible for 'old people' TV, quality crime fiction (Tatort rocks!), local news, live transmission of debates in the Bundestag that nobody in his right mind can stand to watch (Phoenix), general cultural stuff, and Arte, which is a hilariously weird German-French bilingual and bi-cultural station that has been described as "the station that everyone likes, but nobody watches". (It's awesome, and you should totally watch it.)

EDIT: This describes Merkel's attitude perfectly.

[Descan]

That's the first time I've ever seen "Market Liberals" and "Anti-euro right-wing asshats" in the same context and tone. :v

[Helgoland]

That's the first time I've ever seen "Market Liberals" and "Anti-euro right-wing asshats" in the same context and tone. :v

In Germany, they overlap - the pools of possible voters for FDP and AfD overlap to quite some extent, probably contributing to neither of them getting into parliament. And while the FDP is generally hated right now, I actually have a soft spot for them: They might just make the transition to a social liberal type of party.

[Descan]

It lost a little bit of it's "Wat"ness when I realized that "Market liberal" could mean the same thing as "Fiscal conservative" :v