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[MonkeyHead]

Formally, the UK is divided between England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Cornwall exists but is considered part of England now, as the Cornish language and culture was mostly replaced by the English more than two hundred years ago. Poor, poor Cornwall.

I'm personally interested in seeing how Plaid Cymru goes regardless of Scotland's independence referendum, as they are both the primary Welsh independence party and a Green party. I think the UK could last without Scotland, but if Wales splits too there will be very little holding England and Northern Ireland together. Cornwall might even get in on the action by then.

Plaid is less of a Green aprty, and more loyal to its roots - its heartlands are the rural north Wales counties of Gwynedd and Anglesea, where agriculture is king. Over time this has morphed into an understanding that our best natural resources all depend on our geography in one way or another (be it coastal resources, water, wind etc...).

I vote Plaid, but then I do live in one of the aforementioned counties which is a safe seat for them both in the Senedd and in Westminster. They have a track record of focussing on locally important issues, which works less well in the more densly populated south Wales industrial corridor where they are a distant second. The Tories and LibDems are literally knowhere down south, often polling below the Communist party and the BNP. Let that hit home a second. The Tories are less popular than a bunch of racist bigots in some south Wales electoral wards. Labour holds sway there (save for Cardiff city centre with its large student population voting Liberal) and probably always will thanks to the industrial heritage, unless Plaid make a big push for independance which hits home. Interestingly there is little to no talk of a push for an independance vote here - I suspect people in power who would like one to happen are waiting to see how Scotland goes before either wanting one of our own, or keeping it off the table to a more opportune moment.

[Scoops Novel]

I'm talking about whether there would be hesitation if Scotland was better off but Britain as a whole was that much worse off.

I don't think there would be much hesitation at all. Labour have brought up some vacuous stuff about how we'd be "dooming England to Tory rule" (as if denying the English of electing their own government democratically is a morally-sound argument), but people just don't really care about it. We're much, much more focussed on Scotland at the moment and how we will fare.

Firstly, i welcome seeing you lay out the benefits and disadvantages of independence before the SNP does . Secondly, my argument is about economics and resources not politics. Would you be in favor if that was a result, bearing in mind a net loss for Britain as a whole?

[Owlbread]

I would be, yes. I doubt though that the rUK will be that much worse off, it may even be rejuvenated in some way by our independence. I'd like to see an independent, federal state of England with devolution to its constituent parts, bordering an independent Wales. Northern Ireland and Cornwall should be free to choose their own futures.

[Scoops Novel]

I would be, yes. I doubt though that the rUK will be that much worse off, it may even be rejuvenated in some way by our independence. I'd like to see an independent, federal state of England with devolution to its constituent parts, bordering an independent Wales. Northern Ireland and Cornwall should be free to choose their own futures.

Why? I am asking under the assumption that your in favor of Scotland's independence at Britain's expense. Your going to have to rebuff this argument soon enough so you may as well get some practice.

[Owlbread]

I already have done sir. I have had it thrown at me before. I am in favour of Scottish independence at Britain's expense because I believe my own country to be more important to me, my family and my friends.

[Scoops Novel]

Why are you here?

[Owlbread]

Why are you here?

Why am I where good sir?

[Scoops Novel]

These boards.

[Owlbread]

These boards.

I came here because I like Dwarf Fortress too much for my own good and discovered subsequently that the political discussion here is good. Why do you ask?

[Scoops Novel]

These boards.

I came here because I like Dwarf Fortress too much for my own good and discovered subsequently that the political discussion here is good. Why do you ask?

I have a few shreds of national identity, no wife and no kids. I'm not going to pretend that these are your hard and fast morals, and picking and choosing your morality is a well-honored and logical pastime. Nevertheless, when you're prepared to cede other countries loss for your owns gain, for the benefit of you and yours, I'm less willing to be lectured on the evils of English rule, and the same goes for your thoughts on the world you've given so much thought for.

[Scoops Novel]

These boards.

I came here because I like Dwarf Fortress too much for my own good and discovered subsequently that the political discussion here is good. Why do you ask?

I have a few shreds of national identity, no wife and no kids. I'm not going to pretend that these are your hard and fast morals, and picking and choosing your morality is a well-honored and logical pastime. Nevertheless, when you're prepared to cede other countries loss for your owns gain, for the benefit of you and yours, I'm less willing to be lectured on the evils of English rule, and the same goes for your advice for the world you've given so much thought for.

[ChairmanPoo]

when you're prepared to cede other countries loss for your owns gain, for the benefit of you and yours, I'm less willing to be lectured on the evils of English rule, and the same goes for your advice for the world you've given so much thought for.

That's  specious logic, as the statement can be easily reversed: you're basically saying that he should accept his own country's loss for other's gain. You can't seriously make an argument about Owlbread's "evulness" based on this. Get aside so I can take your place much?
It's the... third? trollish statement that you have made today, btw, in my count.

[PanH]

Yes, the last statement Novel made is particularly fallacious. By that logic, you can justify everything as long as it benefits someone. Or is it for the "greater good" ?

[Owlbread]

That's  specious logic, as the statement can be easily reversed: you're basically saying that he should accept his own country's loss for other's gain. You can't seriously make an argument about Owlbread's "evulness" based on this. Get aside so I can take your place much?

I could not have said it better myself, thank you. This is just the way the United Kingdom works - either we accept our loss for the gain of "the majority" (AKA the South-East of England) or we accept the loss of the rest of the UK so that we can better ourselves. I don't believe that the loss will be that great though for the rUK, as I've said before. I actually think it will benefit the UK.

Divorces are ugly things, but they are necessary sometimes and usually involve a lot of selfishness. Even then it's not really "selfish", it's just how the world works.

[Toady One]

I removed a few posts.  In general, people need to chill out just a bit in here.