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[Scoops Novel]

Owlbread, will Scotland pulling out of the UK benefit more people and/or give greater overall benefits then if it remained within it? If not, will the referendum pass?

Secondly, has allowing 16 year old's to vote in the independence referendum been seen as cheap?

[Owlbread]

Owlbread, will Scotland pulling out of the UK benefit more people and/or give greater overall benefits then if it remained within it? If not, will the referendum pass?

Are you asking about benefits for people in the UK or people in Scotland in the event that we became independent? I believe that the referendum will not pass if it is proven that there are no greater benefits for becoming independent. People just won't agree to something like that, they need to know they will be better off. Any poll that has asked people if they'd vote Yes or No if they knew they'd be better off independent, a very comfortable majority said Yes.

Secondly, has allowing 16 year old's to vote in the independence referendum been seen as cheap?

Yes I've heard that thrown around a lot by people, but that's only because they're so stupid that they can't understand that every mainstream political party does stuff like that. Of course, the SNP do it remarkably less than the rest, and at least they were managing to actually reform the country in a way while they did so.

[MonkeyHead]

So, remember that UKIP politician who used the term "Bongo-Bongo land" last month sometime? Well, he has been at it again, this time referring to women who can not/do not clean behind the refigerator as sluts. He made this comment at a "Women in Politics" event. Its like he is some kind of omnibigot.

[Dutchling]

So, remember that UKIP politician who used the term "Bongo-Bongo land" last month sometime? Well, he has been at it again, this time referring to women who can not/do not clean behind the refigerator as sluts. He made this comment at a "Women in Politics" event. Its like he is some kind of omnibigot.

At least you don't have this retard to deal with.

[Scoops Novel]

So, remember that UKIP politician who used the term "Bongo-Bongo land" last month sometime? Well, he has been at it again, this time referring to women who can not/do not clean behind the refigerator as sluts. He made this comment at a "Women in Politics" event. Its like he is some kind of omnibigot.

At least you don't have this retard to deal with.

Don't use retard.

Owlbread, will Scotland pulling out of the UK benefit more people and/or give greater overall benefits then if it remained within it? If not, will the referendum pass?

Are you asking about benefits for people in the UK or people in Scotland in the event that we became independent? I believe that the referendum will not pass if it is proven that there are no greater benefits for becoming independent. People just won't agree to something like that, they need to know they will be better off. Any poll that has asked people if they'd vote Yes or No if they knew they'd be better off independent, a very comfortable majority said Yes.

Secondly, has allowing 16 year old's to vote in the independence referendum been seen as cheap?

Yes I've heard that thrown around a lot by people, but that's only because they're so stupid that they can't understand that every mainstream political party does stuff like that. Of course, the SNP do it remarkably less than the rest, and at least they were managing to actually reform the country in a way while they did so.

You're not helping your case, assuming they're  coming from a position which is not utterly sold on the idea of independence. I'm talking about whether there would be hesitation if Scotland was better off but Britain as a whole was that much worse off.

[LordSlowpoke]

does nobody have any info regarding the upcoming bundestag elections

could have sworn we have germans around

[Dutchling]

I have this.

Link may or not may not work.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Remember to vote Piratenpartei Deutschland, Deutschforumites!

[Darvi]

I'd totally vote for the guys who surprise the Bundeskanzlerin with a surveillance drone.

But alas (luckily), I'm not German, so I guess I'll vote for the PPL next month instead.

[Owlbread]

You're not helping your case, assuming they're  coming from a position which is not utterly sold on the idea of independence.

If they aren't sold on the idea of independence because they think the SNP giving 16/17 year olds was partisan then they are stupid, I'm sorry. The 16 and 17 year olds thing was completely overblown by the media to the point that it actually became a serious topic of discussion with respect to the vote - as if our future has anything to do with voting rights being given to younger people who, according to opinion polls, aren't 100% on independence themselves either. If the opinion polls are to be believed, a large majority oppose it. Based on my own experiences I think they're just like every other Scottish demographic - a third in favour, third against, third undecided, some weight in the "against" camp.

I have all the time in the world to try to convince people who have grown apathetic and think all parties are shit, or want to vote Yes but are worried about the economics, but people like those you've described are just looking for faults in the SNP. I don't have time for people who are so small minded; those who have reduced the entire issue of independence to stuff like whether or not you like Alex Salmond/SNP. Not at the moment anyway, maybe in the next year or so after we've dealt with the more sympathetic "undecideds" we can consider trying to convince people like that.

I'm talking about whether there would be hesitation if Scotland was better off but Britain as a whole was that much worse off.

I don't think there would be much hesitation at all. Labour have brought up some vacuous stuff about how we'd be "dooming England to Tory rule" (as if denying the English of electing their own government democratically is a morally-sound argument), but people just don't really care about it. We're much, much more focussed on Scotland at the moment and how we will fare.

[MonkeyHead]

Dooming Wales and NI to Tory rule too, and we are not very fond of them...

[Owlbread]

Oh yes, but invariably Westminster politicians refer to "England", not Northern Ireland or Wales. It's as if the UK really is just Scotland and England, but I get the feeling it would just be England if we weren't making such a fuss.

[Darvi]

Wait there's more to the UK than that?

The more you know.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Formally, the UK is divided between England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Cornwall exists but is considered part of England now, as the Cornish language and culture was mostly replaced by the English more than two hundred years ago. Poor, poor Cornwall.

I'm personally interested in seeing how Plaid Cymru goes regardless of Scotland's independence referendum, as they are both the primary Welsh independence party and a Green party. I think the UK could last without Scotland, but if Wales splits too there will be very little holding England and Northern Ireland together. Cornwall might even get in on the action by then.

[Owlbread]

I think Cornwall is going to get in on the action very soon with at least some sort of devolution settlement, regardless of how the referendum goes. Some kind of an assembly has been in the pipeline for years. It's only really considered part of England in an official sense, but you could technically argue that there was never a formal act of Union between Cornwall and England, so Cornwall is technically occupied territory, specifically the independent Duchy of Cornwall with Prince Charles as its head of state.

The SNP are also the primary Scottish independence party and a Green party, as a point of interest.

Monkeyhead, I understand Plaid Cymru won an election up in Anglesey. Would you say that it is an indication that people are starting to support Plaid Cymru more under the current leadership of Leanne Wood? Or is it just dissatisfaction with Labour and so forth?