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[10ebbor10]

... so who are Khan and Djanogly?

Is this the moment to make Star Trek references or would it spoil the movie?

Yes and Yes.

Use spoilers.

[ChairmanPoo]

What we need is a relaxing cup of...

You know, I'm kind of grateful to the IOC for NOT allowing our brainless goverment to further drive us into ruin by wanton spending in an Olympic Games in the middle of a nasty economic crisis.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Time for the daily "make Owlbread angry" story.

[Dutchling]

Time for the daily "make Owlbread angry" story.

At first, I thought Muslim Jihadists were helping out in Scottish schools. You know, to show the world that religious extremists care about the Scottish children.

I was a little confused.

[Owlbread]

I hadn't heard of that yet. There was always a close link with the local churches when I was in primary school and secondary school (even when I was 16 I still went to the church services) and the schools would regularly observe Christian traditions. We also had the local minister who would come in and talk to the kids about various things.

The thing is though it was never in your face, never being shoved down your throat. It was just... there, really. I would rather it wasn't there but I have to admit I actually enjoyed listening to the minister when I was a little boy (I did believe in God at that time, but regardless). By my own experience, to this day most Headmasters/Headmistresses are outwardly Christian and some still go to church regularly, even as elders.

I don't know how this compares to the US, but I remember school as being quite close to the Church, with the school chaplain being a known presence. In High School, our chaplain was a radical baptist who, answering my own questions, believed in "micro evolution, not macro evolution". I just knew him though as a nice guy from Glasgow who was a bit loopy and played football with us. We saw either him or another guy with far less charisma from the Church of Scotland basically every assembly, which was once or twice a month. My favourite though was when the wank from the Church of Scotland brought over a little old Afrikaner minister with a white beard from Zimbabwe. He had really interesting stories about Zimbabwe and I liked his accent.

I am not surprised that these zealots were able to infiltrate that kind of an environment, especially if the headmistresses/teachers were of a slightly more Christian persuasion than normal.

[shadenight123]

That happens in any school with any religion background.
My opinion?

Only Atheists will go to Heaven.

[MonkeyHead]

I fucking hope not - heaven sounds like a shit place to end up. I would much rather the sweet release of endless sleep.

[shadenight123]

Well, it's pretty simple.
All people who believe in heaven and hell do good things in hope of heaven.
Atheists don't believe in heaven, hence they do good because it is the right thing to do, and not to earn a prize at the end of their life.
So Atheists do 'Good without interest'.
Religious people don't.

We'll see each other in Heaven. Whether we like it or not. XD

[Frumple]

... that's kinda', well. Wrong?

There's a non-negligible amount of religious people -- I've met more than a handful -- that specifically do good things because it's the right thing to do, with or without the additional metaphysical burden. Some even recognize that, yes, doing good deeds specifically because you're after salvation is selfish and can (will) bar your way to <whatever counts as Good End>. With christianity, th'goal isn't to reach heaven, it's to walk with (as) Jesus -- to imitate the critter's ways. Heaven's an necessary consequence of that, but if it's what you're after, you're doing it wrong. You've got similar concepts with a number of religions, major and otherwise.

And... yeah. Not 'Good without interest', or at least very bloody rarely. It's just 'good because of good', 'good because of feels', or 'good because of conditioning'.

... anyway. European politics thread probably not right place for discussion.

[Owlbread]

I think the brand of Christianity in Scotland helped people like my grandparents quite a lot with its ethos of striving to be a better person, in spite of who you are and all your faults.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't know how this compares to the US, but I remember school as being quite close to the Church, with the school chaplain being a known presence.

Yeah, that would not fly in the US. Not even remotely. You might be able to get away with having a religious figure have an officially sanctioned extra-curricular speech or something, but nothing more.

In High School, our chaplain was a radical baptist who, answering my own questions, believed in "micro evolution, not macro evolution".

Ugh. Just when I stop hearing about that, it comes up again. I'm glad this is a past tense example. The Micro-Macro thing is for people who want to accept evolution without accepting evolution.

I am not surprised that these zealots were able to infiltrate that kind of an environment, especially if the headmistresses/teachers were of a slightly more Christian persuasion than normal.

I'm not surprised either. There are plenty of Christians in the US who would be thrilled to find an environment with no legal secularism in which they could ply their trade. That's primarily why they support the private school movement over here so strongly.

[Owlbread]

I certainly hope we stamp out activities like that of the zealots before they start exploiting the other schools. They're wide open to that kind of thing.

[Descan]

In High School, our chaplain was a radical baptist who, answering my own questions, believed in "micro evolution, not macro evolution".

Ugh. Just when I stop hearing about that, it comes up again. I'm glad this is a past tense example. The Micro-Macro thing is for people who want to accept evolution without accepting evolution.

I always thought of it less "I want to accept evolution but can't," and more of a "I don't want to accept evolution but I'm not willing to ignore the evidence entirely, and want to explain it away."

[10ebbor10]

Well, it's pretty simple.
All people who believe in heaven and hell do good things in hope of heaven.
Atheists don't believe in heaven, hence they do good because it is the right thing to do, and not to earn a prize at the end of their life.
So Atheists do 'Good without interest'.
Religious people don't.

We'll see each other in Heaven. Whether we like it or not. XD

A pretty convincing case for that argument can be made using Biblical texts. However, the center point of Christianity is therefore not doing good for the reward, but doing it for the act itself.

Even the pope recently said that Good atheists end up in heaven.

In High School, our chaplain was a radical baptist who, answering my own questions, believed in "micro evolution, not macro evolution".

Ugh. Just when I stop hearing about that, it comes up again. I'm glad this is a past tense example. The Micro-Macro thing is for people who want to accept evolution without accepting evolution.

I always thought of it less "I want to accept evolution but can't," and more of a "I don't want to accept evolution but I'm not willing to ignore the evidence entirely, and want to explain it away."

Yup, it's accepting the evidence without accepting the consequences.

[Helgoland]

Even the pope recently said that Good atheists end up in heaven.

And the church officials quickly found a way to talk around it, but the point stands - why should good people go to hell? That's the problem I have with many branches of protestantism - this sort of problem is impossible to avoid with 'sola fide'.
(Speaking as a devout roman-catholic agnostic here, by the way )