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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Putin and Medvedev in women's underwear with Putin doing Medvedev's hair.

Glorious.

[burningpet]

There's a pretty wide anti Israel basis. I mean, the difference in Faith should go a long way, and they haven't forgotten what happened to the Palestinians.

Happening...

Israel has not stopped its campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Ethnic cleansing? have you ever even been to israel?

[Sheb]

Since Israel takes part in Eurovision, I hereby declare discussing Israel fit the thread.

Now, while there isn't ethnic cleansing taking place inside Israel proper (in no small part because the cleansing was largely done already), what's going on inside West Bank is definitely ethnic cleansing. A civilized kind of cleansing maybe, but cleansing all the same.

BTW, I find ironic the standard rhetoric of "Arabs are going to push Jews back in the sea if Israel don't defend itself", given that the Arabs were largely pushed into the sea back in the days.

[Descan]

What do you call the whole Palestine kerfuffle, then?

[burningpet]

what's going on inside West Bank is definitely ethnic cleansing. A civilized kind of cleansing maybe, but cleansing all the same.

How is it an ethnic cleansing?

Forget the fact that muslims in israel enjoy the highest quality of life in the middle east if not the entire world in relation to other muslims (giving the fact that the richest countries like qatar, the emirates and saudi arabia are very oppressive, and trust me, muslim arabs love their freedom just as you do, and in israel, they enjoy it to its fullest). that's not the issue since we agreed that israel is in fact not conducting an ethnic cleansing inside its borders, please explain how israel is conducting an ethnic cleansing in an area who has some of the highest growth rates in the world.

[Sheb]

Most of the West Bank is under Israel military control. Arabs there are banned from building new houses, and are regularly expropriated to make way for "natural parks" that after a few years are given up to settlers. Arabs town and cities are strangled by a network of checkpoints, walls and settlers-only highway. Most of the fertile land and water is stolen for settlers. Etc etc.

[LordSlowpoke]

Today I have played that one Socrates philosophy game and learned a bit about how arguments work. Huzzah!

How is it an ethnic cleansing?

I don't think it was even mentioned here, but this is a matter of Israelis settling on land they have "allocated" to the Palestinians, and responding with lethal force when they protest. It fits the bill, specifically as "The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide. Emphasis added.

Forget the fact that muslims in israel enjoy the highest quality of life in the middle east if not the entire world in relation to other muslims (giving the fact that the richest countries like qatar, the emirates and saudi arabia are very oppressive, and trust me, muslim arabs love their freedom just as you do, and in israel, they enjoy it to its fullest). that's not the issue since we agreed that israel is in fact not conducting an ethnic cleansing inside its borders, please explain how israel is conducting an ethnic cleansing in an area who has some of the highest growth rates in the world.

...quality of life? Comparing to other nations? How in the seven divines is this related to ethnic cleansing? By all means, please explain how the fact Israeli Muslims are enjoying "the highest quality of life in the middle east if not the entire world in relation to other muslims" justifies their forced removal from other areas.

Apologies for jumping into an argument after Sheb's responded, but I want you to explain the latter part a bit~

[10ebbor10]

Gaza is worse off, but we can technically count that one as it's own micronation, so I shan't blame Israel for shooting back when they launch another of their rockets.

But yeah, The situation in Israel isn't great, and probably borderline illegal. Palestinian areas are removed as often as possible, walls, checkpoints and the like are even more troubling. The muslims in Israel proper might have a decent time, but those in the occupied areas certainly don't.

[Nadaka]

what's going on inside West Bank is definitely ethnic cleansing. A civilized kind of cleansing maybe, but cleansing all the same.

How is it an ethnic cleansing?

Forget the fact that muslims in israel enjoy the highest quality of life in the middle east if not the entire world in relation to other muslims (giving the fact that the richest countries like qatar, the emirates and saudi arabia are very oppressive, and trust me, muslim arabs love their freedom just as you do, and in israel, they enjoy it to its fullest). that's not the issue since we agreed that israel is in fact not conducting an ethnic cleansing inside its borders, please explain how israel is conducting an ethnic cleansing in an area who has some of the highest growth rates in the world.

It is unquestionably an ethnic cleansing. The forcible expulsion of an ethnic group from a population and/or location to make room for another. That is the very definition of ethnic cleansing.

Most of the West Bank is under Israel military control. Arabs there are banned from building new houses, and are regularly expropriated to make way for "natural parks" that after a few years are given up to settlers. Arabs town and cities are strangled by a network of checkpoints, walls and settlers-only highway. Most of the fertile land and water is stolen for settlers. Etc etc.

exactly.

[burningpet]

Palestines can build new houses, not only that, they are in the process of building a whole new city.

The water issue? http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/MSPS94.pdf  if you don't believe in this linked research, just come here and see how they waste water due to ignorance and how they illegally tap into our main pipelines and dig illegal wells. the water situation is simply on their fault.

Israel also evacuate settlers from their lands. are we now conducting a self ethnic cleansing?

Its not the perfect situation, not for them nor for israel, but its just not an ethnic cleansing.

[MonkeyHead]

A whole new city? Just for them? You know how that must sound.

[Nadaka]

Palestines can build new houses, not only that, they are in the process of building a whole new city.

The water issue? http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/MSPS94.pdf  if you don't believe in this linked research, just come here and see how they waste water due to ignorance and how they illegally tap into our main pipelines and dig illegal wells. the water situation is simply on their fault.

Israel also evacuate settlers from their lands. are we now conducting a self ethnic cleansing?

Its not the perfect situation, not for them nor for israel, but its just not an ethnic cleansing.

Allowed to build houses, that are promptly bulldozed. Construction of Israeli settlement has never stopped. And digging illegal wells and tapping into water mains are exactly the kind of things any rational actor would do when an adequate supply of water is being withheld. There is a mountain of evidence supporting ethnic cleansing. This is a case where Israel is clearly and unquestionably in the wrong and needs to be stopped if you want to retain a moral high ground against the crap your Muslim neighbors are also guilty of.

[10ebbor10]

IIRC, the water problems are partly Turkey's fault. They build a giant dam and cut of several rivers. Water is being exported through the so called pipeline of peace.

[Owlbread]

There is no justification for the Israeli settlers being permitted to build houses in the occupied territories, or for the Israeli government to use the threat of more houses being built as a bargaining chip with the USA.

[burningpet]

I agree and most of the israelis also agree with that. we just don't see any reason to drain our tax money over them nor when serving the army, patrol their settlements in the middle of the night to keep them safe only for them to spit on us and call us judo-naziz when they see us in the day, but that still doesn't mean israel conduct in a large scale ethnic cleansing.