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[XXSockXX]

As for the nukes giving you power in diplomacy, I call bullshit. Nukes are power you can't wield, since they're weapons that you can't use.

I guess that citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would disagree.
On a more serious note - if nukes are useles, why do so many countries have them? Why are people so concerned about Iran and North Korea having nukes?

Yes. Why are we even still talking about NK or Iran? How are the UK and France still that relevant in international politics?

It's a psychological game. Everybody assumes you're not crazy enough to use nukes, but deep down there is a hint of insecurity, "what if". And that is power.

[Leafsnail]

It's a psychological game. Everybody assumes you're not crazy enough to use nukes, but deep down there is a hint of insecurity, "what if". And that is power.

I'm somewhat unfamiliar with this use of the word "power".  Usually I don't take it to mean "a reason for other people to nuke you".

[Scoops Novel]

It's a psychological game. Everybody assumes you're not crazy enough to use nukes, but deep down there is a hint of insecurity, "what if". And that is power.

I'm somewhat unfamiliar with this use of the word "power".  Usually I don't take it to mean "a reason for other people to nuke you".

Try the usual reasoning.

[ChairmanPoo]

As for the nukes giving you power in diplomacy, I call bullshit. Nukes are power you can't wield, since they're weapons that you can't use.

I guess that citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would disagree.
On a more serious note - if nukes are useles, why do so many countries have them? Why are people so concerned about Iran and North Korea having nukes?

North Korea's last sable rattling was an utter failure despite the nukes. Maybe they should have sold that plutonium and pocketed the cash, after all.

[XXSockXX]

It's a psychological game. Everybody assumes you're not crazy enough to use nukes, but deep down there is a hint of insecurity, "what if". And that is power.

I'm somewhat unfamiliar with this use of the word "power".  Usually I don't take it to mean "a reason for other people to nuke you".

International politics runs on the underlying principle of "might is right". Call me cynical, but I think that is part of human nature. If people think you're weak, you already are weak.

[10ebbor10]

As for the nukes giving you power in diplomacy, I call bullshit. Nukes are power you can't wield, since they're weapons that you can't use.

I guess that citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would disagree.
On a more serious note - if nukes are useles, why do so many countries have them? Why are people so concerned about Iran and North Korea having nukes?

North Korea's last sable rattling was an utter failure despite the nukes. Maybe they should have sold that plutonium and pocketed the cash, after all.

Like they'd get it out of the country. They'd sell it they could.

Besides, succesfull nuclear gunboat policy requires you to:
1. Have nuclear warheads
2. Have a means to deliver them other than FedEx
3. Be willing to do diplomacy (Did they actually ever tell anyone their demands? IIRC, it's just a show to increase internal stability)

[Leafsnail]

I think you missed my point.  If other countries are terrified that you're gonna launch a nuke then they'll always be wondering whether they should be attacking now, in order to get the first strike.  MAD always seems to assume an evil aggressor rather than an equally concerned opponent.

[XXSockXX]

I think you missed my point.  If other countries are terrified that you're gonna launch a nuke then they'll always be wondering whether they should be attacking now, in order to get the first strike.  MAD always seems to assume an evil aggressor rather than an equally concerned opponent.

I really don't think so. Just have a look at the Cold War. MAD works because it assumes an equally concerned opponent. If you're dealing with a crazy evil aggressor, it won't work. Then again nobody is really that crazy, or has been so far, it's just the threat looming in the background that makes it all work.

[aenri]

I dont think it is in any country´s best interest to give up their military power - and having nukes unquestionably increases such power. We can never forget the last World War - it happened just 70 years ago. And as we all know history repeats itself.

I cannot see world peace happening anytime soon. I can only hope that I will die before the next World War erupts.

[10ebbor10]

Both world war's are unlikely to repeat themselves. Not in Europe, anyway. It's one of the primary accomplishments of the EU.

[XXSockXX]

Both world war's are unlikely to repeat themselves. Not in Europe, anyway. It's one of the primary accomplishments of the EU.

Yeah, Europe is both too united and too irrelevant now to be at the center of a global conflict.
I disagree though that this is an accomplishment of the EU. I think it's the other way round, we weakened each other so much that cooperation was the only option left.

[10ebbor10]

Both world war's are unlikely to repeat themselves. Not in Europe, anyway. It's one of the primary accomplishments of the EU.

Yeah, Europe is both too united and too irrelevant now to be at the center of a global conflict.
I disagree though that this is an accomplishment of the EU. I think it's the other way round, we weakened each other so much that cooperation was the only option left.

Europe was in ruins the first time around too. We were pretty weakened then, but we rebuild and blew each other up again.

The EU was crucial to the prevention of the idea. It was founded, and was entirely build upon these words:

"Never again"

[Il Palazzo]

As for the nukes giving you power in diplomacy, I call bullshit. Nukes are power you can't wield, since they're weapons that you can't use.

I guess that citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would disagree.
On a more serious note - if nukes are useles, why do so many countries have them? Why are people so concerned about Iran and North Korea having nukes?

North Korea's last sable rattling was an utter failure despite the nukes. Maybe they should have sold that plutonium and pocketed the cash, after all.

Like they'd get it out of the country. They'd sell it they could.

Cash For Plutonium

[aenri]

Both world war's are unlikely to repeat themselves. Not in Europe, anyway. It's one of the primary accomplishments of the EU.

Yeah, Europe is both too united and too irrelevant now to be at the center of a global conflict.
I disagree though that this is an accomplishment of the EU. I think it's the other way round, we weakened each other so much that cooperation was the only option left.

Europe was in ruins the first time around too. We were pretty weakened then, but we rebuild and blew each other up again.

The EU was crucial to the prevention of the idea. It was founded, and was entirely build upon these words:

"Never again"

I think that EU (EC) played a minor role in preventing WW3 when the Cold War was raging, because of the weakened state of European powers in the shadow of USA/CCCP.

But after the dissolution of CCCP, the power of EU grew much stronger. The unity of countries, no borders and freedom are integral to peace in Europe. We came a long way in these 60 years, but it still can be undone very fast.

The next World War probably wont start in Europe (although technically WW2 started in Asia), because war is a very easy thing to start and it is pretty much unpredictable how and when. I wouldn´t believe anyone in 2000 who would claim that USA would try to repeat Soviet mistakes in Afghanistan.
I cannot even predict if something happened like assasination of US president by radiclists from other country.

[Leafsnail]

I really don't think so. Just have a look at the Cold War. MAD works because it assumes an equally concerned opponent. If you're dealing with a crazy evil aggressor, it won't work. Then again nobody is really that crazy, or has been so far, it's just the threat looming in the background that makes it all work.

Yeah, look at the Cold War.  We came pretty fucking close to a nuclear war several times, largely because both sides were worried that the other side might launch an attack.