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[ChairmanPoo]

Well it IS being painted by the British media as a show of force. Given the timing  it seems likely. Of course they're not going to call it that outright. Showsnof force done in order to appease the national public amid EU countries are bad manners after all.

I dont believe the timing of the maneuvers is coincidental anymore than I believe that this fiasco was about that artificial reef bullshit instead of the corruption scandal.

[MonkeyHead]

Which bits of the British media? Proabably the gutter press like the Daily Mail or the Sun which feeds the minds of the conservative middle classes and the great unwashed respectivley. To find the story on the BBC website I had to dig into a subsection of the european news - if I had not seen it in this thread I would not have known about it.

Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23624715

Even then, in the story the Spanish government agree it is a routine visit and that the MoD requested permission from the Spanish government to stop off at a base. It seems to me that this is a non-story ebing blown out of all proportion by certain sections of the media who just would love some kind of crisis. Shame one doesnt really exist.

[Owlbread]

I think it was wrong for the Gibraltarians to put down the "artificial reef" i.e. just big blocks in the water to piss off Spanish fisherman who have the right to be there anyway. That said, the reason for why this has escalated so much is because of the internal problems in Mariano Rajoy's government. Mr. Cameron's trying to cash in on it anyway through that "routine visit" by the warship - "routines" can be cancelled if the situation calls for it. He's got very similar problems and having a few diplomatic clashes defending British interests may keep him in good stead with the electorate, hence why he was so keen to make a big deal out of the Falkland Islands threats last year or so.

[10ebbor10]

Actually, the reef was, IIRC, an agreed upon project, in corporation with local people and would help to boost local fish population.

[Owlbread]

Then I stand corrected. I'd like to hear another Spanish perspective on this though.

[10ebbor10]

Link

[Owlbread]

There doesn't seem to be much there though about the reefs being an agreed-upon thing.

[ChairmanPoo]

There isn't much info about that around here (since the only reason this ever came to news was the goverment hype), but I DO have heard that it was a joint Gibraltar-Andalusia project. No sources other than a comment at the foot of one of the articles, though.

The Gibraltar local goverment has a history of concoting petty annoyances for Spain as much as the Spanish goverment does of buggering Gibraltar, so at present I don't really have any reason to lean in favor of either of the hypothesis.

TBH I live so far up north than I've never paid too much attention to what the Andalusians and Gibraltarians(?) do to each other.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

UK: Keeping modern day colonialism alive.

[palsch]

British politicians on God are always hilarious.

Especially when the Heresiarch runs with it.

5. There was a righteous man named John, who came into all the country about Jordan, denouncing the wickedness of profligates and bankers. And this John wore a shirt of camel's hair, and a leather girdle about his loins; he had an unkempt beard and there were holes in his sandals. And Dave said, For God's sake, do we really have to be in coalition with these people?

14. Many are called, but few are chosen. But you can increase your chances considerably if you went to Eton.

20. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, they said unto him, Master, this woman was taken in the very act. And Dave said, Not another one of Boris's? And they replied unto him, No. For lo she is a scarlet woman, and Boris prefers brunettes. But Dave was astonished, and sore afraid, for the woman knew many secrets. But verily it was all sub judice, and nothing could be reported. Which caused Dave to heave a sigh of relief.

[Loud Whispers]

UK: Keeping modern day colonialism alive.

You don't know what that word means.

Also:
"Gibraltar's 1969 constitution states that there can be no transfer of sovereignty to Spain against the wishes of locals. In a 2002 referendum Gibraltarians resoundingly rejected the idea of joint sovereignty. Spain and Britain were said to have reached "broad agreement" on the concept."

[10ebbor10]

Note that it was rejected by almost 18 000 people, out of an electorate of only 20 000.

Only 187 people voted for shared sovereignity.

[Owlbread]

God and British politicians just don't mix. Even in England it just doesn't sit right. Tony Blair tried to pull that stuff with his Christian Socialism (which gradually mutated into a kind of confused righteous crusading, like how God would want him to go into Iraq) but he just came across as a weirdo.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

Largely, in the case of the English at least, it's because we're embarrassed by religious fervour. A CoE coffee morning is fine, anything beyond that is like discussing your sex life.

[Owlbread]

Largely, in the case of the English at least, it's because we're embarrassed by religious fervour. A CoE coffee morning is fine, anything beyond that is like discussing your sex life.

I would say the same thing of the Scots but there's still vestiges of our old religious radicalism that mean we occasionally have politicians who are rather proud of being "sons of the manse", particularly in the Labour Party, though there are the occasional proud "Church of Scotland" goers in the SNP and the like. A child of a minister or "son of the manse" used to be quite an important person in old Scottish society. They would grow up to be somebody important, but mainly somebody learned. Somebody of good character. Of course, every single bloody Son of the Manse I've heard advertised has been a complete bell end - Gordon Brown, wee Dougie Alexander and his wretched sister spring to mind.

Generally speaking though, like England, Churches are becoming the venues of the elderly. Indeed, on occasion those who are young and go to church on a regular basis (as in going to Church every Sunday) may even be stigmatised by their peers for being... well, I suppose "square".