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[kingfisher1112]

Let's just say that previous scenario plays out. UK and Scotland hate each other. Scotland shits all over the UK. Scotland has the advantage of no debt, and oil ( You inherit some oil right?) What can the UK do? Guess what? Nothing.
Also, if Scotland inherits alliances, then how is that negotiated with the people they have alliances with?

Kingfisher, I think you need to understand the scales we are dealing with here. England had around 50 to 55 million inhabitants. Scotland has IIRC around 5mil, and Wales and NI have 2.5mil each. Should any or all leave, the financial income of England is not going to be affected - if anything it may be better off not having to spend its cash on our infrastructures. Any nation that leaves the UK will want to maintain close relations with it as its local big and rich neighbour.

While that is true, then why do you want to leave? If Britain will have all the cash ever and you'll have the GDP of yer average Eastern European country, then why leave? What about your quality of life?

Also, why do people in arguments in Bay12 need to continually state the people's names? Is it just a stupid attempt at " Ahah! I know more than you! I am your educator!"

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Kingfisher, we generally have multithreaded conversations going on. Stating a name ensures that the meaning of whom is being addressed is not lost.

And also, GDP =/= Quality of Life.

[Owlbread]

It's not so much "what would the UK be willing to part with" but how much would we win from the international court of justice if we have to debate whether or not oil a few miles out from Dundee actually belongs to the rUK or Scotland. That's the kind of stuff we'd debate, seeing as Tony Blair gave those oil fields to England in the late '90s. We'd also be playing our bargaining chip of taking on some of the debt (56 billion short scale or something) in exchange for assets, the net value of "Scotland's share" being estimated at just over 60 billion pounds (short scale). Net value isn't the same thing as straight-up cash, but the debt is nothing we can't handle.

Kingfisher we've already established that the scenario won't play out. There's no point in predicting beyond that. Can you explain what you mean by the "alliance inheritance" thing?

[kingfisher1112]

Kingfisher, we generally have multithreaded conversations going on. Stating a name ensures that the meaning of whom is being addressed is not lost.

And also, GDP =/= Quality of Life.

Yes but GDP heavily influences quality of life.

It's not so much "what would the UK be willing to part with" but how much would we win from the international court of justice if we have to debate whether or not oil a few miles out from Dundee actually belongs to the rUK or Scotland. That's the kind of stuff we'd debate, seeing as Tony Blair gave those oil fields to England in the late '90s. We'd also be playing our bargaining chip of taking on some of the debt (56 billion short scale or something) in exchange for assets, "Scotland's share" being estimated at something like over around 60 billion pounds (short scale). On top of that we've got our natural resources and other sources of wealth, so we're in the clear.

Kingfisher we've already established that the scenario won't play out. There's no point in predicting beyond that. Can you explain what you mean by the "alliance inheritance" thing?

Does Scotland have any international treaties under the current considered parameters of them receiving independence?

[Owlbread]

We have none because, according to the British government, Scotland does not exist as any sort of entity other than a province within the UK. The actual process of independence is going to work in an advantageous way, however; we won't magically become independent the day we vote Yes. It will take several years of negotiation from within the UK, you know, negotiation with the EU, NATO, the UN, all the multinational organisations.

[MonkeyHead]

Let's just say that previous scenario plays out. UK and Scotland hate each other. Scotland shits all over the UK. Scotland has the advantage of no debt, and oil ( You inherit some oil right?) What can the UK do? Guess what? Nothing.
Also, if Scotland inherits alliances, then how is that negotiated with the people they have alliances with?

Kingfisher, I think you need to understand the scales we are dealing with here. England had around 50 to 55 million inhabitants. Scotland has IIRC around 5mil, and Wales and NI have 2.5mil each. Should any or all leave, the financial income of England is not going to be affected - if anything it may be better off not having to spend its cash on our infrastructures. Any nation that leaves the UK will want to maintain close relations with it as its local big and rich neighbour.

While that is true, then why do you want to leave? If Britain will have all the cash ever and you'll have the GDP of yer average Eastern European country, then why leave? What about your quality of life?

Also, why do people in arguments in Bay12 need to continually state the people's names? Is it just a stupid attempt at " Ahah! I know more than you! I am your educator!"

Simply to identify who I was trying to communicate with.

Why do I want Wales to leave the UK? So Wales can be run by the Welsh for the Welsh, not from Westminster by a Government mainly focussed on England. I dont see how all of a sudden my QoL would plummet - I would still have Nationalized healthcare, and might even get to pay less tax, especially on fuel. The Westminster government allocates less cash per captia for education (which is finded twice as well in England) and healthcare to the Welsh Assembly than it spends on its own public sector in England. Seems the only way is up from here.

[kingfisher1112]

Let's just say that previous scenario plays out. UK and Scotland hate each other. Scotland shits all over the UK. Scotland has the advantage of no debt, and oil ( You inherit some oil right?) What can the UK do? Guess what? Nothing.
Also, if Scotland inherits alliances, then how is that negotiated with the people they have alliances with?

Kingfisher, I think you need to understand the scales we are dealing with here. England had around 50 to 55 million inhabitants. Scotland has IIRC around 5mil, and Wales and NI have 2.5mil each. Should any or all leave, the financial income of England is not going to be affected - if anything it may be better off not having to spend its cash on our infrastructures. Any nation that leaves the UK will want to maintain close relations with it as its local big and rich neighbour.

While that is true, then why do you want to leave? If Britain will have all the cash ever and you'll have the GDP of yer average Eastern European country, then why leave? What about your quality of life?

Also, why do people in arguments in Bay12 need to continually state the people's names? Is it just a stupid attempt at " Ahah! I know more than you! I am your educator!"

Simply to identify who I was trying to communicate with.

Why do I want Wales to leave the UK? So Wales can be run by the Welsh for the Welsh, not from Westminster by a Government mainly focussed on England. I dont see how all of a sudden my QoL would plummet - I would still have Nationalized healthcare, and might even get to pay less tax, especially on fuel. The Westminster government allocates less cash per captia for education (which is finded twice as well in England) and healthcare to the Welsh Assembly than it spends on its own public sector in England. Seems the only way is up from here.

Either way, someone will lose something. Whether it be cash or otherwise, you don't cut a pie without crumbs falling off.
EDIT: Oh, so it's some sort of passive racism...?

[Owlbread]

Wales also has an enormous coastline with great potential for expansion into renewable energy sources like tidal power and offshore wind turbines. It is also one of the wettest countries in Europe, and, rather than being a source of jokes, an abundance of clean water (so much so it falls from the sky) is actually going to be a very valuable resource as we move through the century and water supplies become scarce.

Yes Kingfisher, some people are going to lose out when we become independent. The British elites who control the London-based political and financial establishments. I don't think I'll shed tears over it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Kingfisher, we generally have multithreaded conversations going on. Stating a name ensures that the meaning of whom is being addressed is not lost.

And also, GDP =/= Quality of Life.

Yes but GDP heavily influences quality of life.

Not so much. There are places with high GDP and low quality of life. China or Saudi Arabia, for example. It's not about how much you make, it's about how you use what you have.

[kingfisher1112]

Kingfisher, we generally have multithreaded conversations going on. Stating a name ensures that the meaning of whom is being addressed is not lost.

And also, GDP =/= Quality of Life.

Yes but GDP heavily influences quality of life.

Not so much. There are places with high GDP and low quality of life. China or Saudi Arabia, for example. It's not about how much you make, it's about how you use what you have.

Yes, but the more you have, generally, the better off you are. China has a huge population and Saudi Arabia has too much money flowing into the richer classes. In Scotland or Wales they would have either
A) All the cash
B) None of the cash

[MonkeyHead]

Yep, and its an individaul thing wether you think the bad points are worth the gains. In may case, and Owlbreads, we would consider any risks or drawbacks well worth it for self determination. Others might not. People have fought and died and are fighting and dying in many places in the world for the right to determine thier own fates. Our situations are clearly nowhere near as extreme as that, and Scotland has a chance to peacefully make the transition, but it just goes to show what it means to some people.

Wales also has an enormous coastline with great potential for expansion into renewable energy sources like tidal power and offshore wind turbines. It is also one of the wettest countries in Europe, and, rather than being a source of jokes, an abundance of clean water (so much so it falls from the sky) is actually going to be a very valuable resource as we move through the century and water supplies become scarce.

Yes Kingfisher, some people are going to lose out when we become independent. The British elites who control the London-based political and financial establishments. I don't think I'll shed tears over it.

One of our main revenue earners is Welsh Water. It is a not for profit company that supplies all homes and industries with water and sewerage. It has the lowest bills and best service of all the UK water companies. It manages to keep bills low by selling most of our excess water to the South East of England, and is beholden to no shareholders. I honestly can see this model working well for so many sectors in the event of a break up of the UK. We have it, England wants it.

[10ebbor10]

Wales also has an enormous coastline with great potential for expansion into renewable energy sources like tidal power and offshore wind turbines. It is also one of the wettest countries in Europe, and, rather than being a source of jokes, an abundance of clean water (so much so it falls from the sky) is actually going to be a very valuable resource as we move through the century and water supplies become scarce.

So, let me make a list of things the UK England is going to loose.

    - Oil
    - Significant Renewable potential
    - Massive freshwater potential
    - Easily managed borders
    - Gas (Wales has natural gas, right?)

Yeez, no idea why they would hold a grudge.

One of our main revenue earners is Welsh Water. It is a not for profit company that supplies all homes and industries with water and sewerage. It has the lowest bills and best service of all the UK water companies. It manages to keep bills low by selling most of our excess water to the South East of England, and is beholden to no shareholders. I honestly can see this model working well for so many sectors in the event of a break up of the UK. We have it, England wants it.

In general, trade tends to work much better domestically than international. Especially when there's a not insignificant chance that relations won't be great.

[Owlbread]

In general, trade tends to work much better domestically than international. Especially when there's a not insignificant chance that relations won't be great.

I am sure relations between our states would be very good in the event of a break-up.

One of our main revenue earners is Welsh Water. It is a not for profit company that supplies all homes and industries with water and sewerage. It has the lowest bills and best service of all the UK water companies. It manages to keep bills low by selling most of our excess water to the South East of England, and is beholden to no shareholders. I honestly can see this model working well for so many sectors in the event of a break up of the UK. We have it, England wants it.

Perhaps one day the world could want it. I think our water supplies will become the "new oil" one day. Our Australian friends will know all about this, didn't you chaps create that wonderful desalinisation plant to cope with your drought conditions? They say that technology could be used in Africa and the Middle East. If it comes to measures like that being taken across the world, who knows how far we could take our water?

[kingfisher1112]

One of our main revenue earners is Welsh Water. It is a not for profit company that supplies all homes and industries with water and sewerage. It has the lowest bills and best service of all the UK water companies. It manages to keep bills low by selling most of our excess water to the South East of England, and is beholden to no shareholders. I honestly can see this model working well for so many sectors in the event of a break up of the UK. We have it, England wants it.

Perhaps one day the world could want it. I think our water supplies will become the "new oil" one day. Our Australian friends will know all about this, didn't you chaps create that wonderful desalinisation plant to cope with your drought conditions? They say that technology could be used in Africa and the Middle East. If it comes to measures like that being taken across the world, who knows how far we could take our water?

You are right about desalination. However, don't think it could work for Africa. Not enough trained workers. The thing is an engineering marvel.

[10ebbor10]

In general, trade tends to work much better domestically than international. Especially when there's a not insignificant chance that relations won't be great.

I am sure relations between our states would be very good in the event of a break-up.

But what if they aren't. The majority of the Scottish, Welsh and others economy relies on currently domestic trade with the rest of the UK, primarly England. What if they say no to the Independence. It's pretty easy for them to do so, after all.