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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1770770 times)

Frumple

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1035 on: July 31, 2013, 08:45:44 am »

Most of American industrial capacities are already located in China or elsewhere.
Ehn. States are still one of the top three industrial powers in the world, just with domestic stuff, iirc, despite industry only accounting for like a third of its GDP. Yeah, something close to or past a majority of its industrial capacities are elsewhere, but that still leaves a goddamn ridiculous amount of production oomph inside the borders. S'one of those weird things, like th'fact the states have been operating at a trade deficit for a while now but are still one of the largest export economies in the world.

So... yeah, it's likely pretty possible, ha.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1036 on: July 31, 2013, 09:08:49 am »

Well, your Russian sources are quite simply wrong.

The first point belays a total lack of understanding concerning economics. USD is pegged to a few currencies, but not even remotely enough to make what you are describing. And this isn't a cure for inflation. It might slow inflation, if one is being generous. The dollar has been plenty inflated, and will likely continue to be.

Military contracts weren't the source of the post-WWII boom, it was massive spending resultant from the end of the largest war in human history. And demonstrates a profound lack of history, considering that the USSR saw similar growth to the USA in this time period.

As for the third, I say again, conspiracy theorist logic. Yeah, the human rights organizations of the world are all secretly puppets of the US government. Sure. Even when some of them are acting against (Corporate) American interests.

That kind of conspiracy-theory style thinking is very popular among certain groups of Russians at the moment, I have found. I often enjoy having debates with Russians about Chechnya and the North Caucasus; as an aside, it's amazing how by asking the right questions you can turn perfectly normal, friendly, amicable people into those who, if they had their hand on the button, would wipe entire nations of people off the face of the earth because they "aren't human" and are dirty Muslims.

A common argument from them with respect to Syria and Chechnya is that the West is basically out to destabilize Russia, even "crush" them, that's why we apparently gave lots of support to the various insurgents in the country and our "mass media" was allegedly pro-rebel and so forth. Furthermore, the grand Jewish banker conspiracy that rules the west is attempting to gain control over Russia through certain oligarchs like the late Boris Berizovsky. Liberalism (or any other break from Putin's Orwellian "managed democracy") will only lead to such a takeover. I've noticed a lot of paranoia and genuine fear from some of these guys. Putin must cultivate that kind of an atmosphere deliberately, otherwise some of his neo-Cold War policies wouldn't be popular.

Even when I was playing the Half Life mod "Paranoia" a week or two ago I found myself fighting shadowy "Western" special forces trying to steal Russian scientific research data in an almost perfect mirror of the Call of Duty portrayals of Russians as the baddies.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1037 on: July 31, 2013, 09:13:58 am »

admittedly a good part of "western banking" has a disproportionate representation of jews in the upper echelons of management but whenever it's a conspiracy is in the eye of the beholder
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1038 on: July 31, 2013, 09:21:18 am »

admittedly a good part of "western banking" has a disproportionate representation of jews in the upper echelons of management but whenever it's a conspiracy is in the eye of the beholder
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1039 on: July 31, 2013, 09:31:23 am »

Well, your Russian sources are quite simply wrong.

The first point belays a total lack of understanding concerning economics. USD is pegged to a few currencies, but not even remotely enough to make what you are describing. And this isn't a cure for inflation. It might slow inflation, if one is being generous. The dollar has been plenty inflated, and will likely continue to be.

Military contracts weren't the source of the post-WWII boom, it was massive spending resultant from the end of the largest war in human history. And demonstrates a profound lack of history, considering that the USSR saw similar growth to the USA in this time period.

As for the third, I say again, conspiracy theorist logic. Yeah, the human rights organizations of the world are all secretly puppets of the US government. Sure. Even when some of them are acting against (Corporate) American interests.

That kind of conspiracy-theory style thinking is very popular among certain groups of Russians at the moment, I have found. I often enjoy having debates with Russians about Chechnya and the North Caucasus; as an aside, it's amazing how by asking the right questions you can turn perfectly normal, friendly, amicable people into those who, if they had their hand on the button, would wipe entire nations of people off the face of the earth because they "aren't human" and are dirty Muslims.

A common argument from them with respect to Syria and Chechnya is that the West is basically out to destabilize Russia, even "crush" them, that's why we apparently gave lots of support to the various insurgents in the country and our "mass media" was allegedly pro-rebel and so forth. Furthermore, the grand Jewish banker conspiracy that rules the west is attempting to gain control over Russia through certain oligarchs like the late Boris Berizovsky. Liberalism (or any other break from Putin's Orwellian "managed democracy") will only lead to such a takeover. I've noticed a lot of paranoia and genuine fear from some of these guys. Putin must cultivate that kind of an atmosphere deliberately, otherwise some of his neo-Cold War policies wouldn't be popular.

Even when I was playing the Half Life mod "Paranoia" a week or two ago I found myself fighting shadowy "Western" special forces trying to steal Russian scientific research data in an almost perfect mirror of the Call of Duty portrayals of Russians as the baddies.
It should be noted that the absolute majority of anti-Western news sources in Russia are not affiliated with the government in any way. They criticise Putin for being too soft.
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kingfisher1112

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1040 on: July 31, 2013, 09:41:41 am »

I actually like Putin. Still, I wonder whether the elections are real. Someone is sure to have insight...
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Max White

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1041 on: July 31, 2013, 09:43:21 am »

Now correct me if I am wrong, am I likely am, but hasn't Putin been on a pushing some pretty homophobic laws?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1042 on: July 31, 2013, 09:49:29 am »

I actually like Putin. Still, I wonder whether the elections are real. Someone is sure to have insight...
Not sure what there is to like about Putin, he's pushed Russia back towards autocracy.

And his elections have been pretty heavily criticized by watchdog organizations.
Now correct me if I am wrong, am I likely am, but hasn't Putin been on a pushing some pretty homophobic laws?
Considering that "advocating a gay lifestyle" is now illegal in Russia, yes. Doing this gives him the Russian Orthodox Church's cooperation. The situation now is about as close to outlawing homosexuality as you can get without actually doing it.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1043 on: July 31, 2013, 09:51:46 am »

I actually like Putin.
The only thing I like about him is his forehead, his Snowden antics and that he digs typewriters. There's not a lot to be proud of, and there's far too much to despise.

Now correct me if I am wrong, am I likely am, but hasn't Putin been on a pushing some pretty homophobic laws?
No one can talk about homosexuality publicly unless it is to shout at it, adoption is impossible for all but married heterosexual couples, homosexuality cannot be shown publicly. Putin's really just enforcing the morals of the majority on the totality, as disapproval of homosexuality in Russia is only beaten by the Muslim countries.

Max White

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1044 on: July 31, 2013, 10:00:02 am »

I actually like Putin. Still, I wonder whether the elections are real. Someone is sure to have insight...
...

You know, I would like to disagree with you on this issue.

palsch

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1045 on: July 31, 2013, 10:04:37 am »

Now correct me if I am wrong, am I likely am, but hasn't Putin been on a pushing some pretty homophobic laws?

Massively, massively homophobic.

The most recent is a ban on gay 'propaganda'. This law will be in force during the winter Olympics, allowing Russia to detain for fourteen days and deport any gay or pro-gay foreigners, along with hefty fines.

That article chosen purely for the photos BTW.

Because google reader died and feedly doesn't have any search function yet I can't dig up the articles that I saw at the time, but the only that that's still in my stream is this Buzzfeed photo set of gay rights protesters being beaten.

I had a few articles about the conjunction of the religious conservative and hard left groups joining forces against homosexuality as western decadence. Right now this is all I can turn up.
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scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1046 on: July 31, 2013, 10:13:50 am »

Also, remember that Putin and his old KGB buddies committed actual terrorist acts against the Russian people as part of Putin's original election campaign.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1047 on: July 31, 2013, 10:20:12 am »

Also, remember that Putin and his old KGB buddies committed actual terrorist acts against the Russian people as part of Putin's original election campaign.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1048 on: July 31, 2013, 10:20:17 am »

It's very illegal to even fly the rainbow flag. Isn't it the case that they'll fine you £200,000 if you do something like wear a rainbow flag badge or a pro-gay T-shirt?
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palsch

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #1049 on: July 31, 2013, 10:34:27 am »

It's very illegal to even fly the rainbow flag. Isn't it the case that they'll fine you £200,000 if you do something like wear a rainbow flag badge or a pro-gay T-shirt?

Looks like there are sliding scales of fines.
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Under the new law, private individuals promoting "homosexual behaviour among minors" face fines of up to 5,000 roubles (£100; $155) while officials risk paying 10 times that amount. Businesses and schools could be fined up to 500,000 roubles.
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