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[Dutchling]

oops

[Sheb]

Actually, the Belgian monarchy, like a lot of European monarchy, is German. Back in the 19th century, the little state of Saxe-Coburg had a thriving monarch export industry, sending people to reign over Britain, Belgium, Mexico, Portugal, Bulgaria and Brazil.

Sure enough, after WWI, they changed their name from "of Saxe-Boburg-Gotha" to "of Belgium" because Germans were not exactly popular.

Since then, they're officially neither French or Flemish speaking, but apparently they must speak French in the palace, because I've heard Philippe's dutch sucks.

[scriver]

Who cares how supposedly "close" the union is on paper? It's yet another group who doesn't represent you telling you what you can and can't do and what laws you can or can't pass. Only difference is that when it comes to the EU, you don't, in practice, even have any say at all in who gets to lord over you, because the tiny group of people you actually get to put there amounts to a drop in the ocean. Isn't that exactly the biggest issue the Scottish separation movement have with the UK? So why join the EU and make it worse?

(Also, as one of the biggest voices in the EU, joining it would effectively mean bowing to UK superiority. Only now they don't even have to pretend to care about you any longer.)

Well, I'm personnally unhappy with the state of EU organisation and I'm not a big advocate of Scottish independence (sorry Owlbread, don't shoot me), but clearly Scotland would have a lot more self-determination as an independent state with EU membership than as a part of another country.

You seem to have a misconception about how influential the EU is. Sure it could be less influential for my taste and/or more democratic, but it isn't as bad as you seem to think. It's just a loose federation and it's going to remain that way for a long time. I doubt it will become similar to a federal country in my lifetime.

Also don't overestimate the UK's influence within the EU. That would also shrink a bit with an independent Scotland.

Wholly depends on what country you are, and how much you get in line with EUs neoliberalist view. A country like Sweden, for example, can't even test imported cattle and animals for diseases we don't have in Sweden (because it "obstructs concurrence" - because health apparently isn't an actual competition reason), despite the UK having lots of such health checks on their imports.

[10ebbor10]

The elite always speaks French. Always has. English,Dutch,German and related languages have always been the language of the people, while the Roman languages(French,Italian,Latin) are those of the aristocracy.

And the monarchy is just generally disliked in Flanders. Pretty strange, as the previous monarch was outed by Walloon Protests, after the second world war. Was rather popular in Flanders.

Does the transition on the Belgian throne have any political impact? I sometimes read things like "the monarchy is the only political institution that keeps Belgium together". I guess that is an overstatement, but symbolic institutions can have a certain power.

Well, succession is the only time when the powers of the monarch can be changed. (At other times they can do that too, but then the monarch needs to agree). So quite a lot of parties will try to meddle with that now, and reduce it to a purely ceremonial position.

[Sheb]

Also true of the Royal Purse that is fixed at succession. I wouldn't mind cutting payment to all but the King and Heir.

I wonder if the Flemish's dislike of the Monarchy is because the monarchy is seen as a symbol of unitary Belgium. After all, back during the question royale, Walloon opposed Leopold III, but the Mouvement Wallon was going strong and Flemish nationalism was subdued after its association with the Nazis.

Could it be that the inversion in the view of the monarchy is just a reflection of the change in view of a unitary Belgium?

P.S. And French ain't really the language of the Elites nowadays. If anything, it's English.

[10ebbor10]

Nah, it's just that the elites have changed. The old aristocracy is all but gone, and the nouveau riche have taken their place.

There's also a severe change in economical situation around that time. Flanders used to have massive unemployement, and those that had work worked in the steel industry in the South. The entire thing has quite a lot of reasons actually.

¹: The King capitulated, while the primarily French government wanted to continue fighting. Gained him quite a lot of popularity with the people, less so with aristocracy and the bourgeoisie
²: Saw the war through in luxury. Had tea with Hitler
³: Married Lilian Baels. Wasn't really popular with both soldiers and aristocracy, as his previous wife died just 6 years before, and she was of common birth
⁴: Showed little respect for the army and the resistance in general. This is one of the more important reasons.

In Flanders the collaboration was a widespread event, but in Wallonia more people where ultimately executed, indicating that well beliefs with the convicted, and subsequent repression where stronger there, while in Flanders collaboration was more a result of the German Flamenpolitik.

The entire mess almost resulted in a civil war, after all.

[Sheb]

Don't need to tell me, my great-grandfather was prime minister at the time (For a whooping two months, establishing the tradition of dysfunctional government in Belgium :p)

Still, it seems to me that we had a general reversal of situation, both economically and in the strength of nationalism.

[XXSockXX]

Wholly depends on what country you are, and how much you get in line with EUs neoliberalist view. A country like Sweden, for example, can't even test imported cattle and animals for diseases we don't have in Sweden (because it "obstructs concurrence" - because health apparently isn't an actual competition reason), despite the UK having lots of such health checks on their imports.

Yeah, the EU bureaucracy does a lot of stupid shit. This particular one seems weird, because IIRC we have stricter regulations in some health checks than what the EU proposes and we can still enforce them.
It's not even always neoliberal stuff, sometimes it's the "one fit for all" rules. Like the new regulations on saving water - that makes sense in the south, where there are droughts, but in Germany we already save so much water that canalisation gets clogged if they don't pump additional water in.
Still my point stands that an independent EU country has more self-determination than a part of an EU country.

P.S. And French ain't really the language of the Elites nowadays. If anything, it's English.

Any decent (modern) monarch should be able to speak several languages, since they are supposed to represent internationally. If Philippe's Dutch is bad, that's an odd thing. He is not that young and had a lot of time to prepare for the job. And a monarch of a bilingual country should speak the languages of his subjects.

[Sheb]

Sure, it's a shame that he isn't fluent in the 3 languages of Belgium.

[10ebbor10]

It isn't bad. He just has a funny accent.

It's much better than the Dutch of our current prime minister, so...

[Dutchling]

It isn't bad. He just has a funny accent.

Most people in Belgium have a funny accent when speaking Dutch

[10ebbor10]

I have wisely decided not to reply to that statement.

[XXSockXX]

Sure, it's a shame that he isn't fluent in the 3 languages of Belgium.

I always forget about the german Belgians. Which is odd, since I'm german.

[10ebbor10]

Well, if you want to you can get that piece back. Gives nothing but problems.

[Sheb]

Actually, doesn't give much at all. There is only about 70,000 of them after all.