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[Loud Whispers]

It reminds me of PRISM, Loud Whispers. We agree that it wasn't a security threat because everyone thought it was happening already

I disagree with you on a next level of disagreement.

and if you answered such a poll in an extremist fashion fairly few muslims are going to think this will be consequence free.

I was quoting the poll, how is quoting the poll extremist? You're not being terribly clear. Can you please clarify?

We're not going to get away from ethnic identities any time soon, as this is a case of family ties. Take the Woolwich killing. The two bits i remember are "overthrow your governments, they don't care about you", and something on the lines of his people dying and suffering. It's not always a case of racial hatred, though it can arise, it's fairly easy to realize such conditions have arisen with all dominant civilizations, but unfortunately when you play up the equality rhetoric as is necessary in today's world people will expect you to live up to it.

Ok, let's look at his declared motivation for murdering Lee:
"The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers.
"And this British soldier is one. It is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
"By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone.
"So what if we want to live by the Sharia in Muslim lands? Why does that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and kill us?
If you are trying to say this was ethnically motivated, you'd be wrong. Both suspects were British Nigerians and born into Christian families, both grew up in Muslim communities and both tried justifying their murderous act with the plight of Afghan Muslims. It was very much a visible symptom of the conflicts being brewed by these segregated cultures enabling a second generation of people who have better attached themselves to their foreign cultural identity instead of their native one, and view their native culture with no esteem.

As for the culture, i haven't yet noticed any great degradation. I wouldn't say Islamic culture is growing stronger here, at any rate. Culture should be allowed to change, and while i could get into all the reasons it should be kept, preserved and remembered the point still stands.

You haven't explained your point at all, I would greatly appreciate it if you could bring up some of those reasons as to why no efforts should be made to preserve any culture or why the opposite should happen - you may know things I do not. The culture isn't changing, it's disappearing.

[Owlbread]

I haven't had a single working relationship/friendship with a non-white person at all in the years since I came up here. In fact - I can't even remember the last time I sat next to someone who wasn't white, apart from when I was on holiday. Literally everyone is white. It's quite interesting, there isn't much hatred up here towards black people or south asians or whoever because the tensions haven't had the time to build. Also nobody really seems to care about Eastern European immigrants either - we drink with them in the pub, work alongside them whether it's in agriculture or in the tourist industry, virtually everyone's got at least one Polish or Lithuanian or Romanian or Hungarian friend. Granted, there's bigoted people here as well but they're not all that common and they mostly just don't understand. That's the rural areas for you though - I don't know what the big cities are like these days.

[palsch]

Loud, could you maybe define what this culture is that is vanishing? Or at least the elements you see as being threatened. Pinning down some specifics might be useful.

[Owlbread]

Loud, could you maybe define what this culture is that is vanishing? Or at least the elements you see as being threatened. Pinning down some specifics might be useful.

I know you've asked Loud Whispers and I wouldn't really know myself, but I suggest you read "England, your England" by George Orwell and compare it to today.

[Scoops Novel]

There should have been a "leaking" in the PRISM statement, which is now there. Otherwise, you're getting the wrong end of the stick Loud Whispers. It's not quoting the poll that's extremist, it's the idiocy of answering the poll in an extremist fashion, where i used the perceived likelihood of systems such as PRISM as a reason for their paranoia. Lastly, i would argue the reasons given for the Woolwich killings, and the prevalence of  religious extremism itself, is due to the imbalance between developed nations (the west being an obvious target for many reasons) and developing regions, as well as the exploitation of the latter by the former. Religious extremism is a useful way of wielding this.

Loud Whispers, why is that you're not looking at my statements as the product of a rational mind? I'll barely give you the PRISM query, despite my presence, and i think yours, in the relevant threads, but the rest was bleedingly obvious.

[aenri]

So European Union now officially has 28 members. On July 1st Republic of Croatia became part of EU.

For one I think it is pretty good to have more members of EU. They should also access to Schengen Treaty, so I won´t need a passport to go on vacation to Jadran Sea .

[10ebbor10]

Then again, not all is well. Croatia's shipbuilding industry is taking hits because subsidies are scrapped. (Requirement to preserve concurrention within the EU)

[Owlbread]

They don't seem to need to join the euro right now.

[Inarius]

I don't know if it's a good idea to join euro for now. For any country, actually.
Unless you have the more or less same economic model than Germany or having a very small welfare state, it's no good to be in € right now.

[10ebbor10]

They don't seem to need to join the euro right now.

They don't meet the specifications yet.

They sure seem to be enthousiastic about it.

[Owlbread]

I don't know if it's a good idea to join euro for now. For any country, actually.
Unless you have the more or less same economic model than Germany or having a very small welfare state, it's no good to be in € right now.

The thing is we always get told in Scotland that we won't be able to join the European Union without joining the Euro. At least, we get told that by the British government.

[XXSockXX]

The thing is we always get told in Scotland that we won't be able to join the European Union without joining the Euro. At least, we get told that by the British government.

It's true. Every new EU member has to join the Euro, as soon as they meet the requirements, which Croatia, as 10ebbor10 said, hasn't yet (IIRC they have too big a deficit currently). The UK and the other EU-countries that don't have the Euro negotiated that before the adoption of the Euro, but if Scotland would join as a new member, it would have to join the Euro.

[Owlbread]

It's true. Every new EU member has to join the Euro, as soon as they meet the requirements, which Croatia, as 10ebbor10 said, hasn't yet (IIRC they have too big a deficit currently). The UK and the other EU-countries that don't have the Euro negotiated that before the adoption of the Euro, but if Scotland would join as a new member, it would have to join the Euro.

What is the exact legal evidence for that though? I keep hearing about this requirement but I'd like to see it set in writing. I also don't really care if we have to adopt the Euro - there's so much to independence that whether or not the coin in my pocket has the picture of the Queen, the Lion Rampant or 29 stars, that kind of stuff just won't matter.

[Dutchling]

This site which I assume is run by the EU begins with:

All Member States of the European Union, except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.

Not legal documents, but maybe I will find something better after reading the whole thing

edit: Unless you have an op-out (UK and Denmark) you HAVE to join the Eurozone once you meet the requirements. The site references to 'The Treaty', but I'm not sure what it specificallly means with that. Not sure how Sweden managed to not pass the test yet. They basically have an informal opt-out by now

[XXSockXX]

What is the exact legal evidence for that though? I keep hearing about this requirement but I'd like to see it set in writing.

I can't point you to the exact treaty that says that, but from what I understand, the Treaty of Maastricht and following treaties that regulate EU-membership require countries to join the Euro as soon as they meet the Euro convergence criteria. The UK and Denmark have negotiated exceptions for themselves. Sweden meets the criteria, but hasn't joined the Euro and that is tolerated for some reason. The other EU countries that don't have the Euro are expected to join as soon as the meet the criteria.
You will probably have to read through a lot of legal texts to find the exact quote.
I guess in the case of Scotland the problem would be that you couldn't keep the pound as a currency if you leave the UK and/or that you would meet the criteria immediately as an indepenent country. Anyway you would have to to join the Euro sooner or later just like every other EU country, since the exception for the UK would no longer apply to you (that exception predates the Maastricht treaty I think). Or you might have to issue your own currency for the intermediate time and try to do what Sweden does, though I don't know why they don't have to join.