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[Another]

Could USSR dissolution be considered a precedent of a peaceful country break up?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

To an extent, but not so much. There was plenty of violence and ultimately the USSR broke up because they weren't able to stay together.

[scriver]

Ah, thank god, I see Czechoslovakia was already brought up. Add to that the splitting away of Norway from Sweden in the early 20th century. There is already precedent.

[Owlbread]

I think that if we are successful in 2014, Scotland will become a clear-cut example for regions with similar aspirations to follow.

Just read a New York Times article on independence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/opinion/a-vote-on-scottish-independence.html?_r=0

It was disappointingly vague and a bit half-arsed. For a start, they begin talking about how Scotland "has benefited disproportionately from the spoils of the British Empire. But with its rust-belt manufacturing industries and coal mines, it has also suffered disproportionately from Britain’s 20th-century recessions."

Disproportionate in relation to whom? The rest of the UK? England? One can only assume. I would have said that London benefited disproportionately throughout the UK's existence but that's just my opinion.

Then they randomly include this little argument:

"Since 1999, Scots have had their own elected assembly in Edinburgh as well as their seats in the British Parliament, which opponents of independence argue gives Scottish voters representation at two levels of government decision-making, more than they would have with their own separate state."

But with independence our voters would have complete representation at two levels of government decision making, namely an elected (presumably given the SNP's outspoken criticism of the House of Lords) second house and a truly national parliament that is elected by everyone. Why would having some token MPs in Westminster give us "more than we would have with our own separate state"? It's a terribly vague statement anyway, what does "more than we would have with our own separate state" mean?

They also go on to talk about the EU stuff which is the most contentious point of the debate:

"Mr. Salmond wants an independent Scotland to be part of the European Union. But he acknowledges that that would require negotiating new terms with 28 member states in 2014. The budget rebates and specially negotiated exemptions from European regulations that Scotland enjoys as part of the United Kingdom would lapse. And as a new European Union member, Scotland, like all new members, would have to commit itself to adopting the euro."

1. Negotiations would go swimmingly, I promise you. Not even Spain would want Scotland languishing outside the EU, chapping at the door and asking to be let in. Not with our resources, and the instability it would cause isn't worth it.
2. They would, yes. But that isn't to say we couldn't negotiate similar terms that suit us even better.
3. No, that isn't set in stone yet. It's far more complicated than that and has yet to be ironed out. It will be within the next year, but until then don't go making statements like that.

[10ebbor10]

2. Yeah, no. As a small, independent nation you don't have the political and economical power to enforce thise special boni. The UK's bonii are historically based, and actually shouldn't be there.

[Owlbread]

2. Yeah, no. As a small, independent nation you don't have the political and economical power to enforce thise special boni. The UK's bonii are historically based, and actually shouldn't be there.

We aren't that small, we'd be the largest English speaking country in the entire EU if Britain left. But yes, I would like to see these "bonii" in front of me in a clear list so that we could debate them. It's difficult to find a concise list.

[10ebbor10]

Considering that the only other english speaking country in the EU is Ireland, you're not saying anything usefull.

[Owlbread]

Considering that the only other english speaking country in the EU is Ireland, you're not saying anything usefull.

I think we are when we would make up most of the native English speaking population of the EU. Even if there isn't much competition, a sizeable native English speaking population can be a boon in international relations.

[10ebbor10]

Yeah no. Unlike some other countries, most people generally learn a second or even a third language. And speaking the language natively is actually not much of a benefit, in certain situations**. So if you count those who speak it as a second language, then Scotland will have one of the smaller English speaking populations*.

Sadly, speaking English will not give you much political influence.

*Oh, and forgive me if I say so, but I find that an Italian's English is much easier to understand than Scottish.

**Would you rather hire the person speaking only English, or the one speaking English, French, and a smattering of Italian or German.

[Sheb]

Yeah, why on Earth would other powers agree to leave Scotland keep the Rebate?

[Wastedlabor]

Considering that the only other english speaking country in the EU is Ireland, you're not saying anything usefull.

[10ebbor10]

Ok fine, so Scotland is bigger than 2 idiot island countries nobody cares about till their banks get in trouble.

((Also, Maltese is the dominant language on Malta, and according to the Eurobarometer most people learn it as their first language. Meaning I'm still right, as I was talking about natively speaking English, not official languages.))

[scriver]

Yeah. Sorry, Owlbread, but without England you're not going to have any say in the Union. Germany and France is going to impose whatever they want on you, just like they did on the rest of us small countries.

Oh, and that you thing being an English speaking country is even relevant... Well, simply put, in the corridors of Brussels the language spoken isn't English, but French and German.

[Owlbread]

Ok fine, so Scotland is bigger than 2 idiot island countries nobody cares about till their banks get in trouble.

((Also, Maltese is the dominant language on Malta, and according to the Eurobarometer most people learn it as their first language. Meaning I'm still right, as I was talking about natively speaking English, not official languages.))

Tell that to Irish agricultural barons. I don't think it's very nice of you to call the entirety of Ireland and Malta "idiot island countries" either.

Yeah. Sorry, Owlbread, but without England you're not going to have any say in the Union. Germany and France is going to impose whatever they want on you, just like they did on the rest of us small countries.

I'm still not convinced of that. I've heard assertions like that a lot but very little substance - plus, forgive me if I'm wrong but you are Swedish aren't you? I notice you don't use the euro, you use the kroner.

[10ebbor10]

Yeah. Sorry, Owlbread, but without England you're not going to have any say in the Union. Germany and France is going to impose whatever they want on you, just like they did on the rest of us small countries.

I'm still not convinced of that. I've heard assertions like that a lot but very little substance - plus, forgive me if I'm wrong but you are Swedish aren't you? I notice you don't use the euro, you use the kroner.

They are however obliged to start using the Euro as soon as they meet the correct criteria.