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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1751121 times)

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9990 on: August 31, 2014, 10:46:48 am »

owlie

1994

twenty years ago

no occupation involved

closest you get is the guy who was smart enough to say that they should integrate with russia forcibly removed by the central government a year or so later
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9991 on: August 31, 2014, 10:47:10 am »

Well if it was up to me then I'd dissolve the USA and make Native American language the official language of government.

This line of thought never goes anywhere, Owlbread.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9992 on: August 31, 2014, 10:49:00 am »


Hope Ukrainians will have a chance to repay them for that aid
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 10:51:37 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9993 on: August 31, 2014, 10:51:06 am »

Well if it was up to me then I'd dissolve the USA and make Native American language the official language of government.

This line of thought never goes anywhere, Owlbread.

Actually, I'd do that too but we were talking about Crimea, not the USA.

owlie

1994

twenty years ago

no occupation involved

closest you get is the guy who was smart enough to say that they should integrate with russia forcibly removed by the central government a year or so later

Oh yes, the 1994 referendum. Sorry, I was thinking of this year. What were the observers like at the time?
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Darvi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9994 on: August 31, 2014, 10:54:42 am »

Obama has consistently been more hawkish on this while Europe drags it's feet.
True, I'd just like him to do sanctions that have razor sharp teeth rather than blunt ones. Though US sanctions alone won't do a whole lot without the EU doing equally harsh sanctions.
No, it's just like Obama to paint sharp edges on a single round tooth. US sanctions on Russia are meaningless as Russia has near to nothing to do with the USA in trade or gas. The US and Russia both have nothing to lose by being hawkish to one another, only the EU and Russia here do.
Actually, Obama would do this to appeal to the usual "the US has to be strong/show leadership/nuke them commies" demographic.

Oh who am I kidding, those guys aren't happy either way.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9995 on: August 31, 2014, 10:54:58 am »

Do you realize how dangerous your line of though is Owlbread? The whole map of Europe was redrawn after WWII, with countries shifted hundred of kilometers and tens of millions of people forcibly displaced. The only way this continent is more or less stable is because we all agreed not to think to much about how things were before 1948.

Frankly, it reminds me of the CKII empire you hod: rebellions all the time, people dying in endless civil war, but you now, it's fine because every province was of the historical culture/religion!

Also, the reason it's okay to require new immigrant to the UK to learn English while forcing Russian living in Crimea for 150 years to learn Tatar is that immigrants coming to the UK knows about that requirement and made the choice to come anyway. Russians in Crimea just have been born there, or came knowing they had the right to use Russian.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 11:20:51 am by Sheb »
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9996 on: August 31, 2014, 11:09:37 am »

owlie

1994

twenty years ago

no occupation involved

closest you get is the guy who was smart enough to say that they should integrate with russia forcibly removed by the central government a year or so later

Oh yes, the 1994 referendum. Sorry, I was thinking of this year. What were the observers like at the time?

this is the best i got but that's more than half a year too late

still, crimea was not occupied at the time, or anywhere close to it

besides i think you understand how difficult it is to search for anything ukraine related (digging this one up took me twenty minutes?)
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Erkki

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9997 on: August 31, 2014, 11:23:18 am »

The greatest advocate and lobbyist of NATO membership for the countries neighboring Russia is Putin himself.

It is sad how despite us living in the age of information(granted some 85% or so of the Russian TV broadcasting and major newspapers are under Putin's control, tune on for your daily ration of propaganda, but still) the Russians seem to still value military strength, bullying  and parades on the Red Square higher than their own economy, standard of living or even freedom of speech. Most of them even buy the great conspiracy of poor Russia being bullied, blockaded and itself under a threat from the West. Sounds like Germany in the 1930s.

Everything the Russian leadership has done and said for the past couple of years has now lost all its credit. I predict more opposition members and journalists disappearing or getting shot at their doors in the future.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9998 on: August 31, 2014, 11:33:47 am »


In British news I feel rather uneasy about the attitude towards suspected "Jihadists" fighting in Iraq and Syria. The whole "guilty until proven innocent" thing never worked for Shaker Aamer, a British man held in Guantanamo Bay for 12 years (and counting) for terrorism and fighting in Afghanistan for the Taliban, despite having never been tried. Aamer and his friends and supporters are adamant that he only worked for an Islamic charity there.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 11:47:41 am by Owlbread »
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TD1

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9999 on: August 31, 2014, 11:47:53 am »

There's been talk of a trial much like one held for murder, I believe. Also, if a ban were to go ahead (I think Cameron would be too weak-spined to carry it through, but we shall see.) it would supposedly be temporary.

I think it's safe to say a brave number of them are involved in less than savoury practices whilst over there. Something needs to be done, and I don't think the answer is "let them back on the streets after they've been trained to kill."
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10000 on: August 31, 2014, 11:49:03 am »

We let soldiers back on the streets after they've been trained to kill, I don't see the problem. Indeed many of them have killed. Some of them have killed many, many people. The main issue for me is what they did over there and that's what I think the trials should focus on. 
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TD1

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10001 on: August 31, 2014, 11:56:22 am »

Let me expand. Trained to kill and hate the West.

They went over there and burned their passports. I think that expresses their sentiment.
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10002 on: August 31, 2014, 11:58:36 am »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_border#Demarcation

Apparently the Ukraine was protecting itself from annexation so much, that it hasn't even started demarcation of Ukraine-Russia border until the 2012.

So theoretically Russian troops cannot be blamed for crossing the border, since it is, you know, not officially defined.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10003 on: August 31, 2014, 11:58:59 am »

Let me expand. Trained to kill and hate the West.

They went over there and burned their passports. I think that expresses their sentiment.

Hating the West is not a crime.

How many have actually burned their passports, though? You keep saying "they" like they're one big entity but we're talking about a lot of individuals.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10004 on: August 31, 2014, 12:01:07 pm »

We let soldiers back on the streets after they've been trained to kill, I don't see the problem. Indeed many of them have killed. Some of them have killed many, many people. The main issue for me is what they did over there and that's what I think the trials should focus on.

Yeah, there is a very big difference between fighting and killing an armed enemy in wartime, and machine gunning captives laying down in a ditch or beheading people.
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