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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1777445 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9705 on: August 27, 2014, 11:01:46 am »

ivze, Russian army is rather far from taking Mariupol, and battle for Novoazovsk is not over.

I don't believe that Russia can reach as far as Poltava without full-scale invasion with ballistic missiles and aviation

As for what will I do... Probably try to evacuate to some Western country. If not... Wheelchair can allow to pack some  explosives inside
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9706 on: August 27, 2014, 11:10:58 am »

Can anyone german-speaking translate to me what is exactly being talked about in here:

http://www.fr-online.de/ukraine/ukraine-neonazis-im-haeuserkampf,26429068,28083302.html
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ivze

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9707 on: August 27, 2014, 11:20:34 am »

ivze, Russian army is rather far from taking Mariupol, and battle for Novoazovsk is not over.

I don't believe that Russia can reach as far as Poltava without full-scale invasion with ballistic missiles and aviation

As for what will I do... Probably try to evacuate to some Western country. If not... Wheelchair can allow to pack some  explosives inside

So you mean, you're a disabled person. Sorry, if so...
Anyhow, we, Russians, are not a goddamn ISIL or something, but a highly civilised nation :) We respect the rights of civilian locals.
Yet escaping from the war zone in search for a temporary asylum anywhere you decide, either to the West, or to Russia is still a choice I would recommend you, if it comes to a military confrontation in the region. That would be the best choice for the locals of Donetsk and Lugansk, when it all started.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9708 on: August 27, 2014, 11:27:36 am »

Anyhow, we, Russians, are not a goddamn ISIL or something, but a highly civilised nation :) We respect the rights of civilian locals.

"More Evidence of Rape by Russian Forces in Chechnya" - 2000

"Torture and Rape Stalk the Streets of Chechnya" - 2002

Some extracts from the above:



Sounds a lot like ISIL to me.


« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 11:42:55 am by Owlbread »
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ivze

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9709 on: August 27, 2014, 11:35:25 am »

Anyhow, we, Russians, are not a goddamn ISIL or something, but a highly civilised nation :) We respect the rights of civilian locals.

"More Evidence of Rape by Russian Forces in Chechnya" - 2000

"Torture and Rape Stalk the Streets of Chechnya" - 2002

If you honestly compare this to what ISIL has recently done with Yazidi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Yazidis_by_the_Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant), you would realise, that the scale of the war crimes is completely different.


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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9710 on: August 27, 2014, 11:37:30 am »

"Our war crimes aren't as bad" is a better point to be arguing from rather than "there are no war crimes at all". It's good we've reached that finally in these discussions.
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9711 on: August 27, 2014, 11:39:35 am »

ISIL discriminates people by their religion... Russia just kills everyone without .

We're totally better! Also, you, unlike ISIL, cannot bomb Russian troops because we have proper anti-air.

Also, what about the war crimes in Georgia? Do you have some information about them? Please, do tell us.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9712 on: August 27, 2014, 11:45:36 am »

ISIL discriminates people by their religion... Russia just kills everyone without .

We're totally better! Also, you, unlike ISIL, cannot bomb Russian troops because we have proper anti-air.

Also, what about the war crimes in Georgia? Do you have some information about them? Please, do tell us.

I do, I have many stories of war crimes in Georgia, perpetrated largely by Abkhazians and Chechen Islamist volunteers (led by Shamil Basayev, now regarded by Ichkerian Separatist intelligentsia as a Russian agent despite his enduring popularity as a kind of modern-day Chechen folk hero) against Georgian civilians under the supervision of Russian officers and soldiers. Armenians also lent support and Armenia's government is pro-Russian. Abkhazia is now a Russian puppet state rather like South Ossetia.

Quote from: Quote from Wikipedia about the perpetrators of the massacre of Sukhumi
There are a number of conflicting claims as to whether the massacre was conducted by Abkhaz militias or those of their Russian and North Caucasian allies. Allegedly, the commander of the separatist forces, partly responsible for the massacre was the deputy defence minister and "hero" of Abkhazia Shamil Basaev. According to witness testimonies, the militants spoke North Caucasian languages and Russian. However, some refugees who survived the massacre have claimed that they recognized their Abkhaz and Armenian neighbours collaborating with the militants during the massacres in various neighbourhoods. Many people recall the commands given by Russian officers: "Do not take prisoners alive!"

Houses and land owned by Georgians were ransacked and taken over by the Abkhaz, Russians, Cossacks and other newcomers.[citation needed] These allegations are currently being investigated by the International Criminal Court in the Hague. The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) has recently given its recognition to and condemned the ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia. Although many separatist militants have been accused for committing massacres none of them have yet been tried.

This is not to say that Georgians did not commit war crimes. They certainly did, I can dig them up if you want - the thing is though it was the Georgians being ethnically cleansed for the most part, given that the Abkhazians were trying to remove Georgian presence on "their land", so the Abkhazian perpetrated massacres were generally higher profile and were more common/notable.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 11:55:52 am by Owlbread »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9713 on: August 27, 2014, 11:57:51 am »

So you mean, you're a disabled person. Sorry, if so...
Anyhow, we, Russians, are not a goddamn ISIL or something, but a highly civilised nation :) We respect the rights of civilian locals.
Yet escaping from the war zone in search for a temporary asylum anywhere you decide, either to the West, or to Russia is still a choice I would recommend you, if it comes to a military confrontation in the region. That would be the best choice for the locals of Donetsk and Lugansk, when it all started.
I am a member of several Ukrainian nationalist organizations. Should I explain why living on occupied territory\in Russia = very bad idea? Even if it wasn't against my sense of dignity to live under rule of khuilo

I honestly don't know what will I do in the worst case scenario... Logic says that alive I am more useful for my nation... but leaving friends and family behind? They will not run for sure. They prepare for guerrilla since March.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9714 on: August 27, 2014, 12:02:24 pm »

I've not seen or heard of any kind of meaningful guerrilla activity in Ukraine, so I doubt that your friends would actually do anything. If they're ready for guerrilla, then they would be better served in volunteer battalions.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9715 on: August 27, 2014, 12:40:04 pm »

1) Guerrilla warfare needs preparation, neither Crimea nor Donbass had any chance to do it. That is one reasons why that kind of resistance is rare. Another is that they are more Pro-Russian
2) Some people don't fit volunteer battalions because of their age, gender or general fitness
3) Some have socially important work
4) Some prefer to defend their homes, to dying under Russian artillery near some village
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9716 on: August 27, 2014, 12:44:02 pm »

Can anyone german-speaking translate to me what is exactly being talked about in here:

http://www.fr-online.de/ukraine/ukraine-neonazis-im-haeuserkampf,26429068,28083302.html
Neonazis are doing the close-quarters fighting for Ukraine, because the Ukrainian army prefers to stay back and shell the enemy. The author is located in Moscow, and his dislike of those Nazis certainly shows, but the article ends with a couple of quotes from a local who was displaced from a neighboring town when the separatists conquered it: He says he prefers the Nazis to the separatists because he at least can complain to the police about the Nazis, which are subordinate to the police, while there's nobody to complain to about the separatists.

UR, whatever happens, don't become a suicide bomber. If all else fails, come to Germany/Poland/someothersanestate and start campaigning, raising funds for the guerilla.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Sergarr

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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9718 on: August 27, 2014, 12:52:27 pm »

I know we have problems, tough spots on the front and commander of an overPRed volunteer battalion who thinks that he can order around high command using his facebook and threatening with mass protests
So? Do you suggest me to panic?



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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9719 on: August 27, 2014, 01:13:50 pm »

I suggest you to panic because he's a) really popular and b) has called people to protest against the current government

Also c) his troops (volunteers) have been encircled by DNR/LNR/Russian army for 5 days. 5 days. They've been encircled there. For 5 days. Encircled. By an opponent which has much less troops. Encircled!
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