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[Loud Whispers]

Putin is fighting to restore "Great Russia". Under current Russian historical myths and ideology that is plain impossible without the mother of Russian cities - Kiev. That is the goal. He needs whole Ukraine. Without that pesky wrong kind of Ukrainians. He and majority of Russians are ready to pay any price to achieve this. Look at Sergarr. He happily glorifies the great times of Russia that included killing millions and millions of Ukrainians. He wants that back. And believe me, Sergarr is far from typical Russian. He is way more tolerant and liberal than what you can expect talking with a random citizen

Russians are not fools who would see their nation destroyed just to take Kiev for a day and a fortnight.

Fighting Russia when Russia wants to show its military strength is foolish when the West need only watch as investors prefer to wop it out in the metropolitan streets of Europe rather than Russia.

Russian economy will collapse. Problem is that Russians will happily eat grass and unite more around the idea of fighting evil West

If they invade and their economy collapses they'll be incapable of fighting. Ukraine is already united around the idea of fighting Russia. Putin does not want to invade your country, he wants to take it without firing a shot. He cannot yet take Kiev in such a way.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Russians are not fools who would see their nation destroyed just to take Kiev for a day and a fortnight.

Oh... Optimism. Go dig for gogis' posts

Russian history demonstrates that it is very hard to make Russians rebel. The only thing that can create a rebellion\coup - If current Russian Tsar is not harsh enough. Putin doesn't fit to that role

If they invade and their economy collapses they'll be incapable of fighting. Ukraine is already united around the idea of fighting Russia.

Japan had exactly zero chances to win in a war against USA, yet they attacked.

[LordSlowpoke]

because japan was stuck between a rock and a hard place due to an american embargo, please brush up on your history because this parallel is totally unjustified

[Sergarr]

Have you guys ever seen a rural Canadian road? I have the suck balls and have killed two Vans and a four door from my family, so I'm going out on a limb and say there probably not that many paved roads in Russia that you can drive down with out shaking a small child to death.

Yeah. That's why we, in places far away from civilization, we switch to sand roads! Sand is soft and cozy.

And I don't know how the Russian economy collapse will automatically destroy the big agriculture industry, but apparently, economics are magic. I'm pretty sure there were no investors in USSR, and yet it has achieved what it achieved. There are more than one single way to make economy work, and USSR has proven that. It's maybe far from the best way to do it, but it's workable. At least the mechanization of agriculture has (eventually) eliminated the famines (which according to this were happening every 5-10 years).

Of course that fucker Khrushchev has managed to fuck it up with that corn bullshit, after which the USSR was forced to buy food from outside.

Russians are not fools who would see their nation destroyed just to take Kiev for a day and a fortnight.

Oh... Optimism. Go dig for gogis' posts

Russian history demonstrates that it is very hard to make Russians rebel. The only thing that can create a rebellion\coup - If current Russian Tsar is not harsh enough. Putin doesn't fit to that role

If they invade and their economy collapses they'll be incapable of fighting. Ukraine is already united around the idea of fighting Russia.

Japan had exactly zero chances to win in a war against USA, yet they attacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev%27s_Rebellion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenka_Razin#Open_rebellion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decembrist_revolt

Preeeetty sure the harshness of Russian rulers had nothing to do with these ones.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev%27s_Rebellion
Cossacks, not Russians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenka_Razin#Open_rebellion

Cossacks, not Russians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decembrist_revolt
That was an attempt of a small group that was suppressed by harshness. They got no popular support just because Russian were calmed down by the fact that the new Tsar is harsh enough

[Sergarr]

Cossacks are Russians, though. My father is a Terek Cossack, and he considers himself Russian.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Nearly all proper Cossacks were killed off in many-many wars. Only ones that assimilated into Russians were spared. Good to know that your father is a Terek Cossack. That means that his father is a Terek Cossack. To survive he cooperated with Bolsheviks, there are was no other way. Tells a thing or two about how your believes formed

Also, your hate toward Chechens is easily explained now, your family has a long and successful history of killing them.

[Sergarr]

https://www.facebook.com/arsen.avakov.1/posts/685936781496431

I'm not sure if that's the same Avakov that's the Ukraine Prime Minister, but the message itself is pretty good.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Ukraine foreign minister calls on NATO, EU to give military support

Khmmm

[BlindKitty]

On a side note, it would be interesting to see the USSR return. In the modern day, the Communistic system should work a great deal more efficiently.

1) Computers and advanced communication allow greatly improved resource allocation and production, eliminating the inefficiencies that always plagued the communistic system
2) Automation means that not everyone needs to work anymore. This is problematic in a capitalistic society, but a boon to communists.

You gotta be f**** kidding me. That a person old enough to know how the computer keyboard works thinks that lack of computers lead to downfall of communism OR might be interested in seeing the USSR of all things back? I honestly can not believe this. I have no faith in humans whatsoever, and it still too much and I outright refuse to believe that. Tell me that some troll hacked your account. Also, actually, you got the automation part pretty much wrong way. In communism, the work is the ultimate good, and everybody should work because work is good. In capitalism, if you can get away with not working (because, for example, your spouse earns enough money), hey, good for you! So yeah, lack of work is problematic with communistic society, but not as much of a problem in capitalism.

[LordSlowpoke]

* LordSlowpoke rolls eyes

another "if you don't agree with me you're obviously a troll" post

the quality of discussion in this thread is at an all-time high

[Kicior]

Wat is going on?

У зв’язку з цим, ми звертаємося до Президента України Петра Порошенка із закликом негайно навести порядок у МВС, звільнивши одіозних представників антиукраїнських сил з посад в МВС та розпочати розслідування їх злочинної діяльності.
Також вимагаємо звільнення всіх затриманих, закриття всіх кримінальних проваджень проти бійців Добровольчого Українського Корпусу «Правий Сектор» та інших добровольчих підрозділів і повернення всієї незаконно вилученої зброї та транспорту в зону бойових дій.
У випадку невиконання наших вимог протягом 48 годин ми будемо змушені зняти всі наші підрозділи з лінії фронту, оголосити загальну мобілізацію резервних батальйонів та розпочати похід на Київ з метою проведення «швидких реформ» в МВС. Похідні колони «Правого Сектора» будуть йти в повному спорядженні.

TL;DR
Right sector wants changes in Ministry of Internal Affairs, members of Right Sector are to be released from custody and charges against them are to be dropped. If their requirements aren't met then their units will stop fighting in the east and march to Kiev.
I could get something wrong so bear with me.

[smjjames]

Sounds like a revolt or coup threat and an ultimatum.

And thanks for the rough translation.

[Max White]

You gotta be f**** kidding me. That a person old enough to know how the computer keyboard works thinks that lack of computers lead to downfall of communism OR might be interested in seeing the USSR of all things back? I honestly can not believe this. I have no faith in humans whatsoever, and it still too much and I outright refuse to believe that. Tell me that some troll hacked your account. Also, actually, you got the automation part pretty much wrong way. In communism, the work is the ultimate good, and everybody should work because work is good. In capitalism, if you can get away with not working (because, for example, your spouse earns enough money), hey, good for you! So yeah, lack of work is problematic with communistic society, but not as much of a problem in capitalism.

Hmm... Somebody poses an interesting hypothetical and you respond with an emotional barrage. A'ight, lets do this.

You seem to not understand how automation affects an economy. You see it makes specific jobs redundant. For example, only 300 years ago about 90% of the workforce was employed in agriculture, but these days that has dropped to less than 2%, without triggering any sort of food shortage. This is because agriculture has taken up automation. Crops are sowed, watered and harvested on mass with great big machines driven by a single person, rather than by hand by a very large workforce. Reducing the labor demand of an industry has allowed people to move into other industries, industries that provide us other cool things like monster trucks and vidya games.
So, automation is the greatest gift to a capitalist society because it allows people to make a greater economic contribution per person and therefor things can only get better, right?
WRONG!
1915 was the peak year for the horse population on earth. Since that year their population has rapidly dropped because they have been made redundant and replaced by cars. It isn't that horses are lazy, it is just that they are incapable of preforming as well as a car, and this leaves them with nothing to contribute to the economy. They are pretty much redundant. The free market doesn't just magically make jobs for horses because their old positions were automated, and in economic terms there is no difference between a human and a horse.
It is easy to assume humans will always be able to fill a role that automation can not, but to do so is stupid. The transport industry is one of the biggest in any developed nation, but it is going to change very quickly within our life times with the introduction of self driving vehicles. There are machines that test the interactions of different drugs at a rate of thousands a day. What once took an entire floor of accountants to do is now done using a few megabytes of software. The vast, vast width of our economy is subject to automation, and humans, like the horse, will become redundant.
We are approaching a thing called 'near zero employment' where a very small fraction of humans are able to do anything of value. So how does a capitalist society function is such a technological environment? Well it just doesn't. When wealth is awarded to work, and nobody can work, things break down. The only possible solution is through wealth redistribution, a concept much more closely linked to communism than capitalism.

Study the intersectionality between macroeconomics and technology and everybody turns post-scarcity socialist sooner or later.

[10ebbor10]

You gotta be f**** kidding me.

Oh dear, it appears someone got upset.

That a person old enough to know how the computer keyboard works thinks that lack of computers lead to downfall of communism.

I have said no such thing. The only thing is said was that economic inefficiency was a huge problem of any communistic system, and the the innovation of information technology should allow this to be resolved. For one, updating your economic plans more than once in the 5 years should be beneficial.

might be interested in seeing the USSR of all things back?

Interesting =/= Good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_you_live_in_interesting_times

I have no faith in humans whatsoever, and it still too much and I outright refuse to believe that. Tell me that some troll hacked your account.

Definitively upset.

Also, actually, you got the automation part pretty much wrong way. In communism, the work is the ultimate good, and everybody should work because work is good.

Nope, not really. The central thing to the Communistic system is the common ownership of the means of production, and if those common means of production produce on their own, the system works just as well. In fact, the elimination of the need to work is pretty central to the communistic idea

The USSR just instituted the work is good propaganda because at said time, there was no such automation, and it's hard to be a superpower without an economy.

Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal) is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterized by the absence of social classes, money,[1][2] and the state; as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims to establish this social order

In capitalism, if you can get away with not working (because, for example, your spouse earns enough money), hey, good for you! So yeah, lack of work is problematic with communistic society, but not as much of a problem in capitalism.

You're looking at this from the wrong side. What we're facing with increasing automation is not a decrease in the Supply of workforce (ie, people not wanting to work) but a decrease in the demand for work.

In a communist system, this has no trouble. People are still paid by the state(or by their common ownership), social services keep running, all that stuff.

A capitalist system will collapse. An excess of labor will result, automatically, in average wages going down, due to the laws of supply and demand. This results in greater poverty, which reduces demand for goods, which further reduces demand for labor. This negative feedback loop continues for some time, until you enter either social turmoil, or transit to a neo-feudal system where you have a larger group of unemployed poor plebs living of charity from the rich, and a rich group who owns the means of production.

So I think I might need to adjust my statement. While it would certainly be interesting to see the USSR return, pure communism would be more interesting.