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[MarcAFK]

The Eu is basically the holy roman empire after Napoleon took over, sure now their laws, system of measurement, currencies are unified but in the short term you still basically have a loose collection of individual entities that don't mesh well...
But given enough time and if every language and culture was squashed together into one vague European nationalist replacement then you might be talking about a new Germany circa 1914, we all know how well that turned out....

[Loud Whispers]

Well the EU leads in obscure statistics like GDP, number of modern fighter aircraft, men under arms, population.

I made this thing comparing the top 10 military powers of Europe vs the USA. Britain, France and Germany need to git mor gud before they take on anything.

-Host the Olympic games
-Host the world cup

That's a cruel and unusual punishment and so is outlawed by the Geneva Convention.

[Helgoland]

YOu keep forgetting that nuclear deterrence would still work. And a hostile America would do wonders for European unification - that's the one positive thing about a possible war with Russia, really. At least all the radioactive wasteland will be politically unified.

[Owlbread]

I think it would be most beneficial if we could drop the whole "European" thing from the EU and have an International Federation or something. A Federation of Independent States. It's better that way without the Euro-nationalism.

[Darvi]

Heck, forget nations. Get on with founding the Federation of Planets.

[Duuvian]

Heck, forget nations. Get on with founding the Federation of Planets.

[Owlbread]

Heck, forget nations. Get on with founding the Federation of Planets.

Yeah, that's what I'm working up to. You need to have a Federation of Independent States before you can colonise space.

[Owlbread]

The united federation of independent, disagreeing and warring states.

The EU is a federation of independent states and,  in spite of the bickering,  we haven't descended into warfare yet.

[Owlbread]

Just poking fun at the 'federation of independent states' thing

There is a "Commonwealth of Independent States" though. In its case however it's mostly just a vehicle for Russian foreign policy.

[Descan]

Though, you know, the United States was supposed to, in theory, act as a Federation of Independent states.

That's why they have the "federal level" and each unit is called a "state."

So, you know, just shows that the idea has been tried (albeit with fairly homogenous peoples) and it kind of turned into a super-power state of it's own...

[Helgoland]

I think it would be most beneficial if we could drop the whole "European" thing from the EU and have an International Federation or something. A Federation of Independent States. It's better that way without the Euro-nationalism.

Baby steps, Owlbread. The EU is just the first - if all goes well, the Europeanness will gradually decline with countries such as Tunisia and Turkey joining, while other world regions create similar organizations. We won't be able to get the world federation in one step, we'll have to make at least two.

I keep wondering, though: What exactly does 'independent' mean to you?

[LordSlowpoke]

owlie wants independence, except they want eu too? independent eu states

basically what we have now except with more bickering, on the condition that scotland will leave/never enter if more power is delegated to the federal government

you're big on miracles vOv

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Though, you know, the United States was supposed to, in theory, act as a Federation of Independent states.

That's why they have the "federal level" and each unit is called a "state."

So, you know, just shows that the idea has been tried (albeit with fairly homogenous peoples) and it kind of turned into a super-power state of it's own...

Not really. The Articles of Confederation USA was the only entity that really embodied the idea that the states were independent states within a federation, and it failed almost immediately since it couldn't compel taxation to make that federal entity work (Your fun fact for the day is that under the Articles, the US had no executive figure). It was only under the Constitution that the US became a workable entity. Canada is a far more accurate example of how what you are describing played out.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Guy I knew is KIAed... Russian citizen. Russian nationalist. Died in Ukrainian National Guard defending Ukraine from Russian invasion

We had so many heated arguments about what should be done with Crimea and North Caucasus, What Cossacks are true Cossacks. Was Bandera good or bad guy. Should Ukraine and Russia unite back in one country and many more

Funny things that he always believed that Crimea and Donbass are ethnic Russian territories that Ukraine got unjustifiably. He chose more Russians living as free men in Ukraine to having more Russians living under Putin's regime

R.I.P warrior. I know this is exactly the kind of death you considered the best one

[Guardian G.I.]

Just poking fun at the 'federation of independent states' thing

There is a "Commonwealth of Independent States" though. In its case however it's mostly just a vehicle for Russian foreign policy.

If the CIS (originally a regional organization of post-USSR states created in 1991) is a vehicle for Russian foreign policy, then it is a very stealthy one.
The only thing most people around here know about the activities of the CIS is that it exists. If the CIS's "MIR" television channel is to be believed, they occasionally hold summits and negotiate something, but otherwise, their activities have no practical influence on anyone.

The "CIS" article in the Russian Wikipedia claims that the Republic of Serbian Krajina (in 1995) and Serbia (in 1999) tried to apply for CIS membership, apparently to get Russian protection. But even if they did become CIS members, judging by how it operates, it wouldn't help them at all.

The Union State of Russia and Belarus is absolutely the same: it nominally exists, but it doesn't do anything.

By the way, in 1999, when NATO bombs were falling on Belgrade, Serbia also tried to join the Union State. The Russian parliament approved their decision, but President Yeltsin vetoed it in order to appease the United States of America.