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[Lav]

Actually, would you care to explain something to me?  Why would a video that gets reencoded when it is uploaded to youtube, then reencoded when it's downloaded from youtube have a final encoding time before either of those transfers take place?

Why wouldn't you just download the videos from youtube directly anyway?  There are apps for that.

I used what I have found. If you have a more reliable method, please follow it and post the results. I do not mind whatever results we get, for as long as they are reliable.

Lav, For starters that video is not from SSU. It is a version modified by another Youtube user, using Russian version of the video as a basis.One can see that this is not a SSU youtube channel
Also, youtube videos aren't encoded in Mpeg-4, I suspect that when you download using savefrom they are reencoded

Official original video is here - http://youtu.be/V5E8kDo2n6g
Official English version is here - http://youtu.be/BbyZYgSXdyw. (Note different translation)

Well, I got the same results for official video as well.

Of course it might be a YouTube bug. Would be pretty weird though.

And either way, information in this video does not match the most recent Ukrainian version of the event - which is that the airliner was downed by Russian army Buk crew (while according to video it was done by a cossack border block-post).

Oh well. As I said, it doesn't make sense to point the blame at this point of time - that's just dancing on the bones. I'd rather wait for official investigation results.

Reactions in Europe seem a bit more subdued so far, there are calls for sanctions against Russia, but also calls for more investigation to find those responsible.

Pretty reasonable I guess. There's really little to say until ICAO becomes involved in investigation.

The investigation has some problems of course, the rebels don't want a ceasefire and apparently OSCE investigators have trouble getting to the crash site, they are negotiating about a "humanitarian corridor".

Rebels said there's no need for ceasefire since the drop zone as there's no fighting in the area. And they obviously don't want to stop the fighting as they're apparently quite successful in the last few days and wish to reclaim some of the territory they lost before.

One also has to wonder why civilian airlines were still using this route (Malaysian Airlines is not the only one), when there is a warzone and military planes have been shut down, that's pretty careless.

Kiev closed civilian traffic below 8 kilometers, but left higher echelons open because rebels lacked high-altitude air defence according to Kiev at that time (and contrary to rebel's claims that they do posess such capability). Of course, as soon as Boeing was downed, both sides changed their opinions faster than you can say "!!science!!".

[XXSockXX]

Oh, enough already with the stupid conspiracy theories. The best one I have read is Russian media claiming that it was Ukraine trying to shoot down Putin's flight back from Brazil (which in reality was on a route nowhere near Ukraine, but yeah.)

[mainiac]

Actually, would you care to explain something to me?  Why would a video that gets reencoded when it is uploaded to youtube, then reencoded when it's downloaded from youtube have a final encoding time before either of those transfers take place?

Why wouldn't you just download the videos from youtube directly anyway?  There are apps for that.

I used what I have found. If you have a more reliable method, please follow it and post the results. I do not mind whatever results we get, for as long as they are reliable.

What you have found is, as far as I can tell, completely unrelated to the conclusion you are drawing.

[Lav]

What you have found is, as far as I can tell, completely unrelated to the conclusion you are drawing.

I'm drawing any conclusions? Isn't that Ukrainian Ranger's specialty? As for me, I prefer to wait and not engage in a mass hysteria.

[mainiac]

Ah yes you post your "evidence" but when people point out the holes in it you say lets not rush to conclusions.

[Lav]

I have yet to see the holes. You didn't like the web service I used and I asked if you know a better one. So: do you?

[mainiac]

I have yet to see the holes. You didn't like the web service I used and I asked if you know a better one. So: do you?

It's not the web service that's the problem it's that the video has been re-encoded twice by the time the damn web service gets it!

[Lav]

And that would lead to encoding date a day earlier than the event how exactly?

It's not impossible I guess, but easily detectable by picking a different downloader and (hopefully) obtaining the original video. If you can help with that - it would be great indeed. Because I personally would prefer this to be a result of a software mistake. Then the video could be safely dismissed as an unconfirmed propaganda piece.

[palsch]

Regarding the timestamps, it's almost definitely google's side.

Downloaded multiple versions of the video and compare to their published time, according to the google API.

Original (API file)
Encoded date: UTC 2014-07-16 19:11:19
<published>2014-07-17T19:11:54.000Z</published>

The mirror from here (API file)
Encoded date: UTC 2014-07-16 20:19:10
<published>2014-07-17T20:19:44.000Z</published>

Random third (API file)
Encoded date: UTC 2014-07-16 20:32:12
<published>2014-07-17T20:33:16.000Z</published>

Each encoded date is within a minute of the published date, only out by one day in each case.

Unless each copy of the video (mirrored across various accounts) was encoded specifically a day before it was uploaded, this looks to be a systematic error with youtubes encoding stamps. This is ignoring that the encoder has a specific google video encoder tag that is put into each uploaded video at the time it is encrypted by the google servers.

For shits and giggles I also checked this BBC video (API file).
Encoded date: UTC 2014-07-16 17:32:55
<published>2014-07-17T17:29:39.000Z</published>

NB: I downloaded this one at a lower resolution as opposed to the raw file, and I'm assuming this is encoded by the servers after the original has already been published. Still got the day gap there

So the Beeb must have been in on it as well.

But seriously, what sense would it make to have encoded videos a day in advance? So many things that could go wrong with that, especially given it would have had to have been a subtle operation in all other senses (originally uploading and taking down partial videos of just a few phone calls, including rather specific details and timings that could easily be off).

[mainiac]

And that would lead to encoding date a day earlier than the event how exactly?

I dont have the faintest clue but it doesn't matter because...

THAT DATE IS FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOURCE

[XXSockXX]

You are wasting a lot of time and energy on nonsense. Remember when we had several pages of discussion on slightly suspicious footwear of the Maidan snipers in the first Ukraine thread?

I'm just going to say that preemptively to everbody, if you really want to argue about this silly thing, keep it calm and civil. It was conspiracy shit like this that lead to flaming and getting threads locked the last two times, I wouldn't want to repeat that here.

[da_nang]

-snip-

Same thing with RT's video.

So unless us reptiles are behind this... Totally a possibility

I'd say it's on Google's side.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Or Savefrom.net's problem

Files downloaded in youtube native FLV format doesn't have that glitch

[mainiac]

Why did Ukraine hack Savefrom and how is this related to their neo-nazi plan to shoot down Putin's flight?

[Lav]

Looks that way. Good.

Meanwhile, according to RIA, OSCE mission has arrived to the crash site. They are examining the wreckage and refuse to give any comments to the press so far.

http://ria.ru/world/20140718/1016609241.html (in Russian)

Hopefully soon we'll get some information and not just diplomatic equivalent of thrown droppings.