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[smjjames]

It's possible that it's a piece of equipment that Ukrainians lost, but they aren't the ones who allegedly fired the missiles.

There are plenty of spysats with eyes on the region, so theres a chance that one of them caught the incident, but you know how governments are with releasing the spysat images. Though they don't need to show those to the public.

[XXSockXX]

Here are the two videos that were posted on VK.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YlDSVFVMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhUkqs9CQ0w

They are supposed to be recorded from different villages in the area.
Though you can't really tell much what happened from these, it's just some smoke in the background, could be anything.

[MarcAFK]

Half the passengers being Dutch kinda gives NATO a reason to air strike the rebels radar sites at least, if not also their Sam equipment also, but I doubt it'll do anything more than advise nobody fly over the area. What happened to the sensitive surveillance aircraft that NATO sent to Ukraine? I'll assume its too valuable fir them to actually put anywhere useful due to the risk it might be shot at.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

If there were Americans aboard, I could see those air strikes. Or getting Russia's support to remove those from the rebels' hands a la Syria.
But without Americans aboard, it would seem a bit strange unless other NATO members, (in particular, Netherlands), got vocal in their objections.

[Owlbread]

If there were Americans aboard, I could see those air strikes. Or getting Russia's support to remove those from the rebels' hands a la Syria.
But without Americans aboard, it would seem a bit strange unless other NATO members, (in particular, Netherlands), got vocal in their objections.

I heard there were at least 20 Americans on board. I haven't seen a source for that though.

[Wolfhunter107]

It doesn't make any sense. If the rebels did it, they would risk angering NATO. If the Ukrainian government did it, they would lose the support of NATO. Both parties have the capabilities to do it, but neither would gain from it. I think that it was a case of mistaken identity-somebody thought that they saw a hostile aircraft, and instead shot down an airliner.

[XXSockXX]

Any kind of air strikes or something are extremely unlikely, I'd say, as getting involved in a military conflict near Russia is very high on the "things not to do" list. Not as high as getting into a war with Russia, but still.

What will happen is an investigation and if they can determine who was responsible there might be international warrants and if someone can get arrested, a trial. This will largely depend on the cooperation of the rebels though, who control the crash site and have the black box. It will also depend on Russian cooperation.

If (and that is a big IF) it could somehow be proven that Russian weapons were used in this or that Russia is in some way responsible, that might lead to stronger sanctions (there are already people calling for that), but not much more.
On the other hand I can imagine that Putin might consider dropping support for the rebels, if they bring him trouble like that.

It doesn't make any sense. If the rebels did it, they would risk angering NATO. If the Ukrainian government did it, they would lose the support of NATO. Both parties have the capabilities to do it, but neither would gain from it. I think that it was a case of mistaken identity-somebody thought that they saw a hostile aircraft, and instead shot down an airliner.

That is the way it looks like right now, the rebels mistook the plane for an Ukrainian plane. Even if it was just incompetence, that is still pretty bad.

[mainiac]

On the other hand I can imagine that Putin might consider dropping support for the rebels, if they bring him trouble like that.

The problem is that Putin has zero credibility if he claims to do that.  The Russians still deny the extent to which they support the separatists and have claimed to seek peace even as they attack, saying they weren't trying to annex Crimea as the troops rolled in for example.  A repeat liar promising to stop doing something they dont admit they ever started doing isn't exactly going to reassure anyone.

[alway]

The biggest problem Russia has with denying this: they were way to gung-ho with their attempts to propagandize the war, giving up to the minute news reports on events. They reported shooting down an AN-26 military cargo plane at the time the flight was shot down; and reported it fell in the location of the civilian aircraft. Only problem is, now there's no AN-26 to be found; only the wreckage of a civilian airliner. Had they exercised proper wartime censorship of that sort of news until afterwards, they might have got away with it.

Seriously, it's all over the place in the Russian media.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164
http://lifenews.ru/mobile/news/136801

[Myrkky100]

It should be remembered that KAL007 was shot down during one of the hottest periods of the Cold War with an US congressman on board and even that just generated a lot of talk. NATO can't touch the separatists because they are de facto under Russian protection. In the current situation I don't even see tightening of the economic sanctions likely, the EU and USA are loosing internal support for the ones currently in place.

But still, a horrible tragedy. Hits home especially since I flew over Ukraine a couple of months ago and my friends were joking that if I see fighter planes out of the window, I should try and text them their nationality before they shoot us down. I agree that that separatists are the only logical suspects, hopefully there can be at least some sort of an impartial investigation and perhaps, in 5 or 10 years, the people responsible can be brought to trial.

[Pwnzerfaust]

It should be remembered that KAL007 was shot down during one of the hottest periods of the Cold War with an US congressman on board and even that just generated a lot of talk. NATO can't touch the separatists because they are de facto under Russian protection. In the current situation I don't even see tightening of the economic sanctions likely, the EU and USA are loosing internal support for the ones currently in place.

But still, a horrible tragedy. Hits home especially since I flew over Ukraine a couple of months ago and my friends were joking that if I see fighter planes out of the window, I should try and text them their nationality before they shoot us down. I agree that that separatists are the only logical suspects, hopefully there can be at least some sort of an impartial investigation and perhaps, in 5 or 10 years, the people responsible can be brought to trial.

I can see this galvanizing support for punishing the Separatists and their backers from those that were wavering, at least among the general population.

[LordSlowpoke]

...i can't honestly

in the netherlands at best, but anywhere else? meh

apathy is a strong thing you know

[burningpet]

Are they officially considered terror organizations?

If not, that could be a good first step that has several important implications.

[Guardian G.I.]

Some hawkish US Democrats have already called the MH17 disaster "an act of war" and put the blame on Russia.  This won't end well.

[Duuvian]

Putin blames Ukraine indirectly, saying it wouldn't have happened without the fighting in Eastern Ukraine.

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