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[Guardian G.I.]

There are unconfirmed reports circulating around Twitter claiming that Ukrainian forces are storming Lugansk right now.
https://twitter.com/grasswire/statuses/484814296438693888
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/statuses/484809350889107457
https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/statuses/484785809426378753

[smjjames]

Well, if the Ukrainians are finally doing something about it, then I'd say well done. it's about time those rebels were put down with force. Attacking a nation's army with firepower and killing a nation's citizens should not go unpunished.

Collateral damage unfortunately, exists. Even the US screws up.

Hopefully those apartments reportedly that got flattened were evacuated.

What does the US have anything to do with this?

Nothing, just that even the US, with our precision guided missiles, screws up and has civillian casualties (aka collateral damage), I expect the same to be true for the Ukranian army. Assuming that there are even civillians where they are targeting.

Edit: Is ITAR-TASS considered a kremlin mouthpiece or is it neutral (as neutral gets in this whole thing)? Because they are reporting the attack in the Ligansk area.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738959

[Owlbread]

The commander of pro-Russian forces in Slavyansk and formally the Minister of Defence of the Donetsk People's Republic Igor Strelkov has stated that his troops won't hold out much longer against the superior Ukrainian force - he's begging the Russian government to launch a military intervention or otherwise they will have to deal with hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the Eastern Ukraine to Russia. However, Putin is too busy trying to be a master of diplomacy - he's quietly negotiating the prolongation of ceasefire agreements with the EU and he's constantly calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict. What an imperialist.

Putin is an Imperialist, not an idiot. He's got what he wanted - Ukraine has been destabilised to the Nth degree and Crimea has been annexed. The West has been reminded that he is King in that area and his other puppet states e.g. Kazakhstan and Belarus have been reminded that if they start playing with that "revolution" nonsense and try to go against his word they could potentially have their countries split and their economies ruined. Guys like Strelkov are completely expendable and Putin doesn't really need them anymore.

Of course the best way to get at Putin on this one is for Ukraine to defeat the rebellion, devolve power to all of its many regions equally, continue to recognise Crimea as a part of Ukraine and then join the EU and NATO. If the quality of life in Ukraine can improve, there is a possibility that Ukraine may become a smaller, "better version of Russia" where Russians can live, work, start successful businesses and experience the joys of free movement as their Russo-Latvian friends currently do. Considering how many Russians currently live in the UK and around somewhere like London, if moving to the EU was as easy as moving to Donetsk then I'm sure Russians would be pouring out of the Federation. The elderly Stalinists in Crimea can wave their Russian naval flags all they want, they'll still have empty supermarkets and international restrictions on their travel while farmers just over the border can enjoy subsidies. This is what Putin actually fears the most.

[smjjames]

That's kind of assuming that the Ukranians and the Russo-Ukranians will be able to get along. I'm sure many want to get along, but... there has been a pretty deep split lately.

[Owlbread]

That's kind of assuming that the Ukranians and the Russo-Ukranians will be able to get along. I'm sure many want to get along, but... there has been a pretty deep split lately.

Of course that'll always be there. Ukraine just needs to endure unrest while they accomplish great things.

[TD1]

Such as world domination.

That's right. Ukraine's out to get us.

[Owlbread]

Such as world domination.

That's right. Ukraine's out to get us.

Joking aside if Ukraine got their shit together I'm fairly certain they could be a very major player in the world, like an Eastern France.

[smjjames]

Such as world domination.

That's right. Ukraine's out to get us.

Joking aside if Ukraine got their shit together I'm fairly certain they could be a very major player in the world, like an Eastern France.

I wonder how much Russia would tolerate such a powerful former soviet sattelite?

[Owlbread]

I wonder how much Russia would tolerate such a powerful former soviet sattelite?

They wouldn't, that's why they've nearly split Ukraine in half.

[Comrade P.]

Homefront 2: Instead of North Korea, Ukraine!

Homefront 3 then?

[vagel7]

http://english.pravda.ru/

Oh the propaganda, so ridiculous.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

He's got what he wanted - Ukraine has been destabilised to the Nth degree and Crimea has been annexed.

I doubt that he got what he wanted... It's like Stalin in Winter War. Formally he won and got a chunk of territory... But he wanted more.

Putin wanted that New Russia thing and didn't get it. Crimea is a poor consolation prize. Minor destabilization at Donbass isn't a huge achievement, either. I consider it minor comparing to what it could be if Russian propaganda managed to make 100 000 locals+ take arms against Ukrainian state.

Guys like Strelkov are completely expendable and Putin doesn't really need them anymore.

There are theory that Putin intentionally utilizes guys like Strelkov because they may create Russian Right Sector and lead Russian Maidan

Win-win. Destabilize situation in Ukraine and get rid of potential enemies.

Kazakhstan and Belarus have been reminded that if they start playing with that "revolution" nonsense and try to go against his word they could potentially have their countries split and their economies ruined

I'd not call this countries puppets. Under heavy influence yep. Puppets... not yet
Problem is that when dictators die, country has a high chance to go down  in chaos

If the quality of life in Ukraine can improve, there is a possibility that Ukraine may become a smaller, "better version of Russia" where Russians can live, work, start successful businesses and experience the joys of free movement as their Russo-Latvian friends currently do.

Ukraine is attractive for Russian immigrants even now. So far it is true only for a small subset for people who are ready to lose in income but live in a more free country.

[Loud Whispers]

The arguments for carriers mirror my argument for nukes almost word for word. BBC confirmed for lurking Europol thread.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To maintain world peace, nuclear weapons must remain known to the world in the hands of a few stable countries.
There are a lot of people the UK has sworn to defend, some of them neighbours to popular bogeymen, but the principle will stay the same; we know little about what the future will look like. *LOOKING BACK ON THE PAST, OH GOD UKRAINE Once you lose nukes you will not regain them, and if you ever come into conflict with a nuclear power where you have none you are stuffed. Georgia isn't faring well looking at Russia on their rightful clay. The East is coming into conflict with the South-East, leading to instability and the possible restriction of sea lanes. It is the role of the Royal Navy to ensure that Britain's sea lanes are always open, and having a vast navy will mean nothing if you have no nuclear capability to contend with opposing nuclear countries. Strategic points like the straits of Hormuz are contended by nuclear powers like China, and 90% of all British imports come by sea. Maintaining these lanes with the minimal cost of billions is well worth the price of ensuring Britain's entire economy doesn't collapse.

...

The UK gets its juicy stuff like oil from other countries, and is a great exporter of funnily enough, machine bits like nuclear reactors and boilers. Everywhere the sea is the UK needs the ability to wander. Such is the cost of an island.

As long as the UK maintains its blue water navy and its nuclear projection capabilities, its clay, allies and ports will always be lively and protected.

They are a small fraction of most cost effective method of maintaining the most amount of military power from the defence budget for a country whose military budget is actually in proportion. It is absurd to say they are far too expensive, we are not America. And America's nukes aren't even what drains their defence budget, their defence budgets surmounts to $683 billion and the NNSA's separate budget surmounts to $11 billion. I could see the argument for downsizing the conventional armed forces including the nuclear stockpile, whilst maintaining operational capabilities for both, but the great thing about this is it is what I see, it is what is happening.

The principle will stay the same; we know little about what the future will look like. Once you lose nukes you will not regain them, and if you ever come into conflict with a nuclear power where you have none you are stuffed. Georgia isn't faring well looking at Russia on their rightful clay. The East is coming into conflict with the South-East, leading to instability and the possible restriction of sea lanes. It is the role of the Royal Navy to ensure that Britain's sea lanes are always open, and having a vast navy will mean nothing if you have no nuclear capability to contend with opposing

Tankers coming in from Qatar pass through at least the Straits of Hormuz, Bab-el-Mendeb, Suez, Gibraltar, Dover. Let's say China and Iran decided to try shutting down the Straits of Hormuz, maybe just setting up mines in it to hell and back. enjoying their new pipeline. Will they allow British tankers through if they have the backing of nukes, or no nukes?

* Loud Whispers nervously checks the curtains and ceiling for camouflaged reporters.

* Loud Whispers checks the publishing date

Oh. It was I copying them all along...


*EDIT
The context is that the Queen Elizabeth carriers are off to their naming ceremonies.

[Sinistar]

Ukraine's new defence minister promises Crimea victory

This is yesterday's news, still posting it because I just want to say - I really hope this guy knows what hes doing. I hope he's not dumb enough to actually send Ukrainian tanks rolling down the Crimean roads. Fighting separatist in Donetsk and Luhansk is one thing, but there will be Russian forces in Crimea. I hope he means "After we get Crimea back through some sort of diplomatic means, then yeah, we will totally hold a victory parade in Sevastopol." Probably just saber rattling, but still...

Interesting article about alleged group recruiting Russian volunteers to fight in Ukraine.

Also something about ex-Crimean Tatars.

As always, take it with a bit of salt.

In other news: Germany arrests suspected US spy
Hey, it's like cold war all over again. Neat. Maybe next Bond movie will finally feature again a bit more megalomaniac, insane main villains with heavy Russian accent.

On aircraft carriers - I will say, UK's new addition to it's fleet look pretty damn sexy.
Good luck waiting on the first delivery of over-priced, overdeveloped mess that is F-35 though.

[Descan]

"And 95% of the nation's imports arrive by sea,"

... How can 5% of an island nations imports not arrive by sea? Plane? ... That's a LOT of air imports. I thought that wasn't economical. >_>