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[scriver]

If you're able to think "some people have a giant pile of money that they do nothing with" and "some people have so little they starve" and not see a problem there, then I think don't think you're quite to your senses, dude.

[Helgoland]

AHA! LABOR THEORY OF VALUE! GOTCHA!

resources and labor

Nope, just pointing out the fallacy of 'money is wealth'.

The problem lies not in the distribution of money, but in the distribution of economic resources - the two are often, but certainly not always, connected. Just think of Scrooge McDuck, swimming in money, but living off of stale bread.

[scriver]

Yes, I am sure all of the richest people in the world are just starving themselves to keep giant piles of cash in their swimming pools. That's certainly a realistic allusion to draw.

[Helgoland]

God-fucking-dammit, I am not talking about real-world rich people! I'm just pointing out that the distribution of money is not the underlying problem that needs to be fixed! It's about the spending of that money, not about it being in their possession - not directly, anyway.

[scriver]

The reason they aren't spending the money is because that in their possession there is such a ridiculous amount of money that they can't spend it themselves any more. That's why redistribution of that money to people who have need of shit and would spend it if they had the chance is a good thing. You can't say that "distribution/over-possession of money is not the problem, spending is" when those two things are directly related and intertwined.

[LordSlowpoke]

The reason they aren't spending the money is because that in their possession there is such a ridiculous amount of money that they can't spend it themselves any more. That's why redistribution of that money to people who have need of shit and would spend it if they had the chance is a good thing. You can't say that "distribution/over-possession of money is not the problem, spending is" when those two things are directly related and intertwined.

i can see two problems with this, and i'm almost certain somebody with a degree in economics would see even more of these

[Descan]

* Descan quietly toots his Basic Income + Relative Rent Control horn.

toot toot

[Sheb]

What's relative rent control?

[Helgoland]

* Helgoland  supports basic income, but slowly undermines the rent-control measures

[Descan]

The idea that if you give everyone 20k a year, rent will inflate to take every single dollar, so you make a rule that rent can only be such-and-such amount of money, relative to the value of money in the region/city. Instead of a flat "Rent is only to be 200 dollars a month!", you allow variation in the market but say "Yeah, you can't charge people 20 times the historical relative price".

Or something like that, I'm still working on it and welcome any ideas.

[Helgoland]

Why not just increase the tax on income from rent, then bump up the basic income? Rent won't go up quite as fast as the guaranteed basic income, so there's bound to be a sweet spot.
We're introducing something similar to your ideas in Germany right now - it's called the Mietpreisbremse, or rent brake. It's... not universally accepted as a good idea.

[Descan]

Because I don't think runaway inflation is a very good idea, and allowing rent to be an outlet for such inflation...

I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps rent control is the wrong idea, but instead allowing people to sue landlords for exorbitant pricing? Instead of a set-in-stone, no-more-than-XXX-relative-dollars...

*shrug*

[Helgoland]

The thing is, with any form of price control you're going to get misallocations. How about this: A rent contract that has been running for X years may only be terminated with some years' (!) prior notice, or if there's a comparable apartment availible for no more than 10% (or so) more than the old one; increases in rent must be regulated in the lease (so you can agree with your landlord that the rent may not rise more than X% over Y years).
It's basically rent control on an individual basis that's negotiated between landlord and tenant.

[Descan]

That could work, I can see that.

[Sheb]

Or it could lead to all landlord producing boilerplate contracts with a raise limit of 10000%.