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[Owlbread]

I can understand the sentiment, though. If your entire voting area consistently goes one way, but are over-ruled by a majority elsewhere, that's a problem.

Of course, where you draw the line is another question...

But a cultural bloc/nation like Scotland or Quebec is a good place to start, I'd say. Not being able to fix it perfectly is not an excuse to not fix it at all, just a reason to make sure you do it as mindfully and openly as possible (so you don't cut off future solutions from being used)

I agree completely. The cultural bloc/national model is where I draw the line (I am often asked the question "but what about Newcastle etc"), but devolution of power should extend as far as is possible and practical to the regions within this bloc.

[TD1]

that didn't protect us from Thatcher

Thatcher wasn't bad. She made the best of a bad situation. Imagine Tony Blair or Gordon Brown at the wheel at that time. The metaphorical ship would have sunk. She tried her best, and her best wasn't bad at all. True, she messed up on some things like the Good Friday Agreement (Which she even said she regretted), but if anything that was because of bad advisers.

Quite frankly, the celebration after her death disgusted me. Regardless on your view of how she did, or what party she was in, to parade about partying because an old woman died is sickening.

Of course, I'm not saying that you were that extreme. (Almost certain that you aren't). Just saying how the curse of humanity is to act like idiots from time to time.

Of course, I don't know much about Thatcher in relation to Scotland, so there may be a big hole in what I just said.

[Descan]

I would say I would draw the "Yes, definitely" line at cultural nationblocks. That isn't to say that other consistently divergent areas without the cultural impetus shouldn't also be independent (though figuring out a name less bland than "Northwest England" for example is a factor ;P), just it needs to be considered a mite more thoughtfully. Such as, is such an area wildly divergent, or just a little bit? Like the difference between Democrat/Republicans versus the difference between hardline socialists and neo-liberalism.

Another factor is would such a place be able to sustain itself? Being politically represented is nice, but not if it comes at the price of a functional economy. If your area hemorrhages people who seek a better life elsewhere (and thereby lose whatever political representation such independence would have gained them), then what's the point?

Another is political homogeneity. It wouldn't do to have a patchwork of villages and cities in one country, and cities and villages literally next door and between them in another country. Like trying to give the Jews a country, by taking all the Jewish-majority areas in cities across the world and giving those cities and city-quarters to a Jewish state. It wouldn't work. Of course, that's an absurd example, but you get my idea. A better example would be the democrat/republican divide. There is the south/north divide, but you also have rural areas that are more republican in the north, and urban areas that are more democrat in the south. A true split along those lines would be a patchwork.

Also, depending on HOW divergent the opinions are, devolution and confederacy is probably a better bet than outright independence. Political consensus rather than exile of the other party, from either perspective.

[scriver]

He said "should", not "will". Sending observers should be good. I'm afraid this will turn into Georgia all over again. The 58th army that invaded Georgia is on Ukraine's borders.

Since yeah, the EU doesn't command any forces, step one could be to close the Baltic and Bosporus to Russian ships or ships going to Russia. Well, in theory. I have no idea how mag documentation works in practice so take it as a Grand Armchair Idea.

[Helgoland]

Since yeah, the EU doesn't command any forces, step one could be to close the Baltic and Bosporus to Russian ships or ships going to Russia. Well, in theory. I have no idea how mag documentation works in practice so take it as a Grand Armchair Idea.

That's something I'd support very much - Russia wants to steal a fancy toy? Take away the batteries

Owlbread, Descan: Why are you thinking just in that direction? 'Where do you draw the line' applies in the other direction too - and frankly, that's the direction that's by far more interesting. Supernational problems are becoming more pressing by the minute - just look at global warming, globalization, refugees, Russia etc. I'm all for the principle of subsidiarity, but it has to be implemented thoroughly - and that includes shifting responsiibilities (and thus sovereignity) to higher levels.

[XXSockXX]

Owlbread, Descan: Why are you thinking just in that direction?

Yeah, join us in the Federal Faith, where we go from door to door and talk constitutional scripture. 

Scotland is in many ways a particular case, and perhaps more suited for independence than most other regions seeking independence, because it is, due to history and geography, culturally somewhat more isolated or unified than other places. Actual cultural blocs are very difficult to determine sometimes, if they exist at all.
You will always have issues with particular regions or even cities having other political preferences than the rest of the country. You can however balance that out to some degree with strong federal elements. In Germany for example, the Bundestag is representing the country as a whole, but the Bundesrat represents the states and the smallest state has as much voting power there as the biggest.

[scriver]

Yes, let's go all supranational and let Germany have even more power over the rest of us. Nevermind that a lot of countries doesn't even have remotely the same kind of governmental system, but I guess they would just have to adapt. Germany knows best, after all, and she only wants what's best for you.

[XXSockXX]

Yes, let's go all supranational and let Germany have even more power over the rest of us. Nevermind that a lot of countries doesn't even have remotely the same kind of governmental system, but I guess they would just have to adapt. Germany knows best, after all, and she only wants what's best for you.

Yes, come to mommy!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Helgoland]

Yes, let's go all supranational and let Germany have even more power over the rest of us. Nevermind that a lot of countries doesn't even have remotely the same kind of governmental system, but I guess they would just have to adapt. Germany knows best, after all, and she only wants what's best for you.

Funny, in Germany all the trolls are afraid of dem dirty lazy Südländer taking our hard-earned Marks Euros

Seriously, though - how could Germany force the whole EU to dance to its tune? There's plenty of potential for coalitions for the containment of Germany

I totally advocate an independant Rhineland, by the way. Then we'll wage a war of agression against the dirty Prussians of Düsseldorf.

[Dutchling]

Norway to ban religious blood rituals performed on virgin boys.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm taking a neutral stance on the issue.

[kaijyuu]

Norway to ban religious blood rituals performed on virgin boys.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm taking a neutral stance on the issue.

Go Norway! Ban that genital mutilation!


(insert standard disclaimers here about how it's not so bad in AIDS stricken countries and how female genital mutilation is worse, because people seem to love bringing those up when discussing circumcision)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Norway to ban religious blood rituals performed on virgin boys.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm taking a neutral stance on the issue.

Go Norway! Ban that genital mutilation!


(insert standard disclaimers here about how it's not so bad in AIDS stricken countries and how female genital mutilation is worse, because people seem to love bringing those up when discussing circumcision)

You know, except for the part where the protection against HIV, even if we accept the most positive figures, is too miniscule to justify cutting people up. Perhaps a better solution would be, and this is pretty radical here, condoms?

[kaijyuu]

100% agreement, man. I just threw that disclaimer in there because I didn't want someone to reply snarkily.

[Descan]

I thought the AIDs thing was like... Disproven? Proven negligible? Lessens AIDs risk by about as much chance of complications from the circumcision? (like, doesn't make you less likely to die, just makes it a different way)

Or that the study or whatever that "proved" it had some holes?

Something like that.

[Pnx]

As I recall the original correlation was found back when Jewish boys were the only ones getting circumcisions. And Jewish boys tended to "get around" far less than the rest of the population.