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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1772102 times)

lordcooper

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #360 on: April 02, 2013, 02:18:43 pm »

Best in what sense?
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #361 on: April 02, 2013, 02:30:58 pm »

Anyone care to answer the question?

No, UKIP arent anywhere near the best option, unless you really like your politics based in the pre-Thatcher world. Thier way of thinking would not be in the UK's best interestes in a modern EU.

lordcooper

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #362 on: April 02, 2013, 03:40:16 pm »

I really wish there was more unity among British socialists.  There's got to be at least five parties of them, all bickering among themselves instead of presenting a united front (pun intended).
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 03:41:58 pm by lordcooper »
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #363 on: April 02, 2013, 04:46:57 pm »

It's the story of Socialism all over the world. I will provide you with a short guide to how things are out here that I typed up in 5 minutes, although I tried to make it colourful.

The Socialist movement in Scotland has been divided since its first conception. During what could be called the "golden age of Scottish Socialism" at the turn of the 20th century i.e. the days of the Independent Labour Party, the original Labour Party, the Communist Party, Scottish Republican Socialist Movement etc, it was divided among certain key figures. The most important of these gentlemen were;




I suppose they represented "extremes" of the movement - the Communist revolutionaries (John MacLean), the organ of Soviet foreign policy (Willie Gallacher) and general left-wing radicals (Keir Hardie). The conflicts were strong enough to ensure that the Socialist movement was set back quite badly and it never really came to anything, although it firmly embedded itself in the consciousness of working-class Scots from Fife to Ayrshire.

It hasn't gotten any better. Today in Scotland we actually have two main Socialist parties, namely;
and the ironically named
Spoiler: Solidarity (click to show/hide)
along with an independent but this is not affilated with the

There are also many independent movements advocating Socialism (e.g. Scottish Republican Socialist Movement with which I sympathise).

Other Socialist parties in Scotland include the vaguely left-wing (but not really)
Spoiler: Scottish Labour Party (click to show/hide)
not to mention the
and finally the Left Alliance (which is tiny).

Within the Scottish Socialist Party there are numerous independent factions called "platforms". These "platforms" now consist of:

Quote

    The Republican Communist Network (created in 1999), a founding member of the SSP. It prints an internal journal, Emancipation and Liberation.

    The Workers Unity Platform (created in 1999) is an amalgam of members from small left groups who came together to form a platform within the SSP.

    The Solidarity Tendency (created in 2006) consists of supporters of the Alliance for Workers Liberty.

At one time there were more platforms. I will now give you a copy and paste of them.

Quote

    The International Socialist Movement (1999–2006) was a founder member of the SSP and was affiliated to the CWI. It broke from the CWI in 2001, when some CWI loyalists left it. It published the journal "Frontline" until its dissolution in 2006, whereupon Frontline became an independent Marxist journal.

    The International Socialists (2001–2006) consisted of a small number of individuals who remained affiliated to the CWI when the ISM broke away from the international in 2001. In 2006 the platform left the party [2].

    The Scottish Republican Socialist Movement (1999–2006) whose major focus is independence for a Scottish Republic, emerged from the Scottish Republican Socialist Party which was one of the founding platforms of the SSP. The SRSM officially disaffilated from the SSP in November 2006, although some individual members remain SSP members.

    The Scottish supporters of the Socialist Workers Party (2003–2006) joined the SSP in 2002 becoming the Socialist Workers Platform despite strong reservations from then members. In 2006 they left the SSP to join Solidarity.

    The United Left (2006–2007) was not officially incorporated as a platform within the SSP, however it operated in a similar manner and was largely regarded as such. It was formed in June 2006 and dissolved in January 2007. Its formation was largely in response to the Sheridan crisis however it drove a move towards a more collaborative and autonomous vision for the SSP in the post-split period.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 05:27:31 pm by Owlbread »
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Dutchling

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #364 on: April 02, 2013, 04:56:48 pm »

We have one large socialist party here. Got pretty big once, but didn't manage to form a coalition. Almost got large last election as well, but in the last week all their votes went to Labour.

Left wing is kinda divided here though, but not in a bad way imo.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #365 on: April 03, 2013, 03:23:01 pm »

To be completely clear, the question is whether there's either precedent, or time, for a new party to have any measure of support, in the UK elections. Lastly, how are the other parties, e.g, not Conservative, Lib Dem, Labour, or UKIP, doing at the moment, and how do you think such parties will go?
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palsch

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #366 on: April 04, 2013, 06:42:54 am »

To be completely clear, the question is whether there's either precedent, or time, for a new party to have any measure of support, in the UK elections. Lastly, how are the other parties, e.g, not Conservative, Lib Dem, Labour, or UKIP, doing at the moment, and how do you think such parties will go?
Well, the Greens are arguably the UK's fourth party, given they actually have a MP while UKIP don't. Of course, they suck on the national polls. They have had problems in the past with building a rounded political party out of a single issue group, something that UKIP seem to be pulling off (even if it is a party of reactionary bullshit and Daily Mail nonsense). I hope they will make some more gains on the local level though.

The BNP are effectively dead, thank fuck. Electoral defeats and infighting tore them up. Can't entirely ignore them, but not of any real consequence outside a small handful of constituencies. They still have one MEP and a couple dozen councillors, but the only seats they have gained since 2009 have been in uncontested parish town council elections.

Respect are fairly dead as a party as well. It's pretty much just George Galloway trying to keep his cult of personality going even as everyone else with any political heft flees. Right now he's dropping into Parliament every so often, flooding the chamber with Early Day Motions, then disappearing again.

The Pirate Party exist. They actually kept their deposit (>5% of the vote) in one seat of the local elections. That's about all there is to say there, except that they seem to have stronger European unity as a party than any other group I'm aware of.

The UK actually has a Libertarian Party. Anyone else heard of them? They held one parish council seat for about 10 months two years ago.

Other than that there are the usual deliberate jokes (as opposed to the Libertarian's accidental joke), single issue (legalise cannabis, animal rights, etc) and regional parties.
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Descan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #367 on: April 04, 2013, 08:08:22 am »

And then the SNP rearing it's head like a glorious beast from the north.

I'm assuming, at least. I don't know how the UK does elections, and what impact the SNP has beyond Scotland.

edit: actually tbh i just wanted to say that beast thing
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palsch

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #368 on: April 04, 2013, 08:20:29 am »

And then the SNP rearing it's head like a glorious beast from the north.

I'm assuming, at least. I don't know how the UK does elections, and what impact the SNP has beyond Scotland.
I'd lump them in with the regional parties. They will have a huge impact on the future of the UK (one way or another), but as far as seats at UK elections they hold six seats in Scotland and probably aren't making any gains. I don't see them being much involved in Westminster politics beyond 2015, no matter what happens with the referendum.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #369 on: April 04, 2013, 09:35:17 am »

And then the SNP rearing it's head like a glorious beast from the north.

I'm assuming, at least. I don't know how the UK does elections, and what impact the SNP has beyond Scotland.

edit: actually tbh i just wanted to say that beast thing

Yes indeed. Labour generally wins in Scotland when it comes to UK elections, but the SNP have made pretty strong gains. They've got quite a strong Westminster contingent at the moment (i.e. secure MPs like Pete Wishart and so on) and there is no sign of that waning. After the referendum and things have died down (if we don't win), I predict they'll knock Labour out a bit and win more seats.

At the moment people are trying to make their minds up about the SNP because up until now, the SNP have been very successful because they're a party that does things differently from Westminster and is very vocal about Scottish needs. They treat us like a country, not a province as Labour or the Conservatives/Lib Dems would. Now that they've actually begun pursuing their flagship policy of independence, a lot of Scots are a bit wary of them - hence why Labour didn't get completely flattened back in the local council elections of 2012. Of course, Labour trumpeted it as "The SNP's juggernaut has stalled!" and proceeded to gloat about it, but the SNP were successful. I predict things will go back to a 2011-style situation of SNP success if we lose the referendum and  Labour win the next general election (and we realise they're twats again). British (and Scottish) politics has a depressing tendency to yo-yo. I remember how toxic the Labour brand was in 2010, now there's no chance David Cameron will hold on.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 09:49:46 am by Owlbread »
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #370 on: April 04, 2013, 12:13:42 pm »

As far as the UK is concerned, the stage is set for some dynamic personality to come from somewhere and sweep us all off our feet, kinda like how Blair did before we all realised he was just a cunt with a smile mask on. I wouldnt be suprised if Plaid Cymru made huge gains here in Wales next election. Wales doesnt really do the Tories, and like the rest of the UK has fallen out of love with Labour. Plaid Cymru has seats in Westminster and the Senedd with fairly left of centre policies given a "Welshness" coating. Plaid might end up with a sizeable portion of the Senedd (or even control), but even if they won a massive number of the contestable welsh seats in Westminster would only narrowly eat into the large number of expected Labour seats nationwide.

Though as Olwbread points out, as a nation we do tend simply to yo-yo between Labour and the Tories (thanks to the massive disparity in population between England and everywhere else), forgetting how bad each group is while the other lot is inflicted on us.

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #371 on: April 04, 2013, 12:26:00 pm »

As far as the UK is concerned, the stage is set for some dynamic personality to come from somewhere and sweep us all off our feet, kinda like how Blair did before we all realised he was just a cunt with a smile mask on. I wouldnt be suprised if Plaid Cymru made huge gains here in Wales next election. Wales doesnt really do the Tories, and like the rest of the UK has fallen out of love with Labour. Plaid Cymru has seats in Westminster and the Senedd with fairly left of centre policies given a "Welshness" coating. Plaid might end up with a sizeable portion of the Senedd (or even control), but even if they won a massive number of the contestable welsh seats in Westminster would only narrowly eat into the large number of expected Labour seats nationwide.

Though as Olwbread points out, as a nation we do tend simply to yo-yo between Labour and the Tories (thanks to the massive disparity in population between England and everywhere else), forgetting how bad each group is while the other lot is inflicted on us.

I do hope Leanne Wood is successful in her management of Plaid Cymru. I agree with her somewhat more radical attitude towards independence and party policies in general.

But yes, I agree with you. There's a serious vacuum that, hopefully, won't get filled by another Blair.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #372 on: April 04, 2013, 01:51:11 pm »

I thought, and bloody well hoped, as much. However, I'll be surprised if there's only one apparent (it is the best way of putting it MonkeyHead) uproarious figure trying to make hay out of this, maybe even a couple of would be uproarious ones. Needless to say, that sounds like a very possible coalition to me. Is there precedent for recently formed parties gaining attention here?

As for Labour and Conservatives, what do you see their game plan as being? Said apparent figures are unlikely to gain much trust unless something game changing happens. Do you think they'll go for damage control over a concerted push?
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #373 on: April 04, 2013, 05:11:37 pm »

As long as the void filler isnt Boris Johnston.

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #374 on: April 07, 2013, 06:38:16 pm »

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/teen-crime-commissioner-offensive-tweet-row-081528626.html#uQfIe8z

Well, Britain's first "teenage crime commissioner" is an imbecile. I know it's a Mickey Mouse position but it is depressing.

I know it's a daily mail article, and awful rag though-it may be, at least they've got nitty-gritty details.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305118/Paris-Brown-Is-foul-mouthed-self-obsessed-Twitter-teen-really-future-British-policing.html
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:44:08 pm by Owlbread »
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