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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Ain't it fascinating, that Polish people can set aside some differences with Ukrainians (and we have plenty, don't we, Ukrainian Ranger?), when it comes to freedom - and there is quite a few Russian people who should have no problem with Ukraine (note: this doesn't go the other way, as Ukraine has plenty of problems with Russia; like everybody who ever had common border with them) who can't. Oh well, not that freedom is all that popular east of Ukraine.

Probably not for an open access but I name no names, so I think it's OK

I got a message from a member from one Polish Far-Right organization, from the more radical ones who want 1939 Poland borders to be restored and he informed me that in case of civil war starting, some of them will cross the border and fight on our side cause having totalitarian Russian colony nearby isn't good for Poland.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Well, Ranger is a member of a neo-nazi organization. He said himself that he's in 'Svoboda', I believe.

If they win, I imagine there'll be ethnic cleansings in Ukraine. Some people that I'm friends with might have to flee for their life to avoid being murdered. Sorry for being emotional about such things.

I suggest you try keeping your ignorant statements to yourself before you prove that you're a complete moron, thanks. That is baseless foolish accusation and I can't help but think you're just a troll or severely ignorant. Make your choice. Are you a card-carrying communist that has vested interest in USSR policies in Ukraine?

[BlindKitty]

I got a message from a member from one Polish Far-Right organization, from the more radical ones who want 1939 Poland borders to be restored and he informed me that in case of civil war starting, some of them will cross the border and fight on our side cause having totalitarian Russian colony nearby isn't good for Poland.

Well, it is better to kick totalitarian regime first, and talk with people who are left later, than sit on your ass first, and get it kicked by totalitarian regime later. Actually, I'm pretty sure you will get much more support from Poland in case of really hard fighting, if 1956 is any indication (English and Ukrainian Wikipedia articles explaining what I'm talking about). At the very least, you will get my literal blood.

EDIT: As a little clarification, as I'm not sure if it's mentioned in the articles. After the revolution of 1956, Polish citizens organized quite an effort to help Hungarians, and among medical supplies sent was a huge amount of blood donated by Poles for wounded.

[Owlbread]

One need to be a total idiot to believe a single word said by Russian Television.

No, one needs to be a total idiot to believe a single word by a Bandera-worshipper.

Of course, that fits into the interests of American & European politicians, and they were always better at information warfare. So, people do listen to those scumbags.

I've heard a lot of that sort of talk from people in Russia and, granted, our governments do misinform and often have monopolies on our media but in Russia it is far, far worse.

The idea that the West is out to get Russia seems to be very strong even today. You should hold remind yourselves that if there is a "West" (presumably NATO), the last thing they want is to harm Russia or Russians in any way or exploit you. They want a Russia that is a part of their power bloc. If Putin and other radical Russian Imperialists/Eurasianists stop trying to form another Eastern Bloc/Warsaw (Almaty?) Pact of ex-Soviet countries then there will be no problem.

Unfortunately an oligarchy of gangsters is consolidating their power over you right this minute, justifying themselves by cooking up fear of Western plans to destroy you. The best thing you can do is learn that there is nothing to fear, only those who seek to exploit you. The worst of that threat certainly won't be found in the political/economic establishment in the USA, look closer to home.

Well, Ranger is a member of a neo-nazi organization. He said himself that he's in 'Svoboda', I believe.

Svoboda aren't neo-Nazi but they have borderline neo-Nazi groups within them, rather like many far-right Nationalist groups in Europe. They all take on a similar sort of character.

If they win, I imagine there'll be ethnic cleansings in Ukraine. Some people that I'm friends with might have to flee for their life to avoid being murdered. Sorry for being emotional about such things.

I would imagine many Russo-Ukrainians would leave the country but so be it if they don't have the courage to show that they also want to have a future as valued members of Ukrainian society. Svoboda are vocal and provide a lot of the muscle but there's more to these protests than just pure Nationalist fervor. It'll be nothing like Russian-sanctioned ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia and Abkhazia anyway.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I would imagine many Russo-Ukrainians would leave the country but so be it if they don't have the courage to show that they also want to have a future as valued members of Ukrainian society. Svoboda are vocal and provide a lot of the muscle but there's more to these protests than just pure Nationalist fervor. It'll be nothing like Russian-sanctioned ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia and Abkhazia anyway.

But if glorious Russia doesn't control Ukraine how will communist policies continue on life support? Don't give him the time of day. He's a troll.

[10ebbor10]

I like the article about the European climate goals. It's good for a laugh, and gives hope that young Spanish, Greek, Polish and maybe even Italian people will go and tell their governments that they should really think hard about all that EU thing. Because reducing CO2 emission by 40%... It's death for the industry. It will be cheaper to make stuff in freaking US of A and ship it to the Old World. I mean, _even_ cheaper, because it's already happening. It would say that Obama might come with some similar idea, but then all production will just move somewhere more sensible, like freaking Siberia...

European Emission trading should help with this.

Also, carbon import taxes.

[LordSlowpoke]

Don't give him the time of day. He's a troll.

walk into thread

tell people who they should and shouldn't speak with

a+ forum user

I like the article about the European climate goals. It's good for a laugh, and gives hope that young Spanish, Greek, Polish and maybe even Italian people will go and tell their governments that they should really think hard about all that EU thing. Because reducing CO2 emission by 40%... It's death for the industry. It will be cheaper to make stuff in freaking US of A and ship it to the Old World. I mean, _even_ cheaper, because it's already happening. It would say that Obama might come with some similar idea, but then all production will just move somewhere more sensible, like freaking Siberia...

European Emission trading should help with this.

Also, carbon import taxes.

The whole idea of limiting CO2 emissions while noble is bullshit. Rides the same wave as the one which is shutting down nuclear energy all over Europe and forcing us to shift back to coal (which, surprise surprise, forces the governments to introduce even harsher regulations in order to enforce the CO2 limits).

It's like people are actually doing their best to make energy ridiculously expensive, what with the straight up subsidies people get on new energy sources while overproduction is already out there.

[kaijyuu]

Yeah if you didn't notice global warming is not a good thing and limiting carbon emissions (and other greenhouse gases, which are admittedly often overlooked) is pretty much the only way to mitigate it.

Maybe super cheap energy isn't worth the cost.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

That's another one of those people not worth the time to heed, hopefully he'll google stuff on his free time instead and learn for himself perhaps. c:

[LordSlowpoke]

For every factory that's driven out of Europe by said regulations, another's going to open in China or elsewhere and produce ten times the CO2 it could have back in Europe because it's simply cheaper that way.

[10ebbor10]

For every factory that's driven out of Europe by said regulations, another's going to open in China or elsewhere and produce ten times the CO2 it could have back in Europe because it's simply cheaper that way.

Europe's export industry is pretty much gone anyway. Any industry that remains either supplies domestically, or produces specialist resources.

Hence, import taxes would work, and can perfectly prevent factories being relocated.

Also, China is suffering from significant ecological collapse. Freedom of emissions won't last. (It's diminishing rapidly already.)

[BlindKitty]

Also, carbon import taxes.

To not only make production unprofitable, but also prevent people from buying anything? (OK, OK, that was quite a hyperbole.)

The problem is, it doesn't make sense in the form it is today. 40% of EU emissions is less than China's rise in the single year probably. The Kioto protocol wasn't signed by many major polluters. And single-sided emission reduction is negligible in grand scheme of things, but destroys the EU industry. And God, we need it here now. Tax based emission reduction systems (emission rights trading is one of those) would need to be global to work efficiently. On the local scale, promoting innovation would lead to much better results. Specifically, going to solar power (only really feasible of the 'renewable sources' in the major scale) would be so much better idea if we actually had efficient solar cells. EU spends a lot of money on inefficient ones, because that's all we have now, instead of spending that money on creating better ones, that would fare well on the free market. It just doesn't make sense.

Ninja'd, so I will just say this:

For every factory that's driven out of Europe by said regulations, another's going to open in China or elsewhere and produce ten times the CO2 it could have back in Europe because it's simply cheaper that way.

Makes quite a bit of sense. I'm reminded of the few stories: flying low-emission hybrid Toyota from Japan to USA by jet-plane (it was for some celebrity who wanted to look eco-friendly), thus making more CO2 on the plane trip than said Toyota would save over 50 years of driving it; also, American program of paying people to dump their old, high-emission cars and buy now, low-emission ones, which had a net effect of increasing CO2 production, as the production of new cars made more CO2 than destruction of the old ones saved.

[kaijyuu]

Energy isn't cheap to transport and western countries have electricity by the bucketload compared to places with weak regulations.

You can argue that regulation hamstrings it somewhat and you'd be right, but western countries can sure as hell afford to do so.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

See how easy it is to build factories when your local ecology can't support basic ecosystems. Energy prices will be the last of our worries if we continue to listen to reactionary commentary on how coal is better cuz it's so teh cheep.

[BlindKitty]

Energy isn't cheap to transport and western countries have electricity by the bucketload compared to places with weak regulations.

You can argue that regulation hamstrings it somewhat and you'd be right, but western countries can sure as hell afford to do so.

Aaaaand here we go. Yeah, probably German industry (quite a powerhouse, actually) can afford more expensive electricity. But you really, really, shouldn't tell people from rural areas of Poland, Romania or even Spain that doubling their electricity bills (in Poland, almost all electricity is from coal-burning, post-Commie power plants) is all fine and dandy. At least not to their faces.