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[misko27]

Going to be similar here in that it's perfectly fine, no good reason for banning it outright; however it has it's flaws, serious issues, which must be brought into the light of scrutiny and mitigated or resolved.

[Sheb]

The problem is no one is really sure how to solve the problems associated with prostitution. Good data is hard to find, but this study looking at 150 countries found that liberalizing prostitution increase human trafficking: the expanded demand leads to more women being forced into prostitution.

So basically, we have to decide whether the increase in human trafficking is worth it.

P.S. Also, I didn't found any better sources than the Telegraph, but if this story is true, it's a chilly example of badly-implemented legalization. Apparently a German woman was threatened with unemployment benefits cuts if she turned down a job as a prostitute.

[XXSockXX]

P.S. Also, I didn't found any better sources than the Telegraph, but if this story is true, it's a chilly example of badly-implemented legalization. Apparently a German woman was threatened with unemployment benefits cuts if she turned down a job as a prostitute.

That story is most certainly not true. Prostitution is legal, but it's not considered a normal profession, so employment agencies can't recommend you or force you to work in the sex industry. If it were a normal profession, you would need a 3 year apprenticeship and trade school to become a prostitute. (That almost accidentally happened back when prostitution was legalized  .

The legalization was done with good intentions, but there are still lots of problems and there is currently a debate to regulate the whole thing more. On the plus side prostitutes have a right to get paid, they pay taxes (though only a flat charge) and they have access to healthcare. Pimping is illegal, but if you happen to be a landlord/bodyguard who rents out rooms to selfemployed women on an hourly basis...

Where I live there is an old red light district, that existed before legalization, several new mega-brothels and of lately women standing on the streets, which is a bit of a problem for the city. Many customers come from over the border, since it's still illegal in France. Most of the women come from eastern Europe, especially Romania and Bulgaria, so they're here legally, but the whole thing smells of human trafficking.

Probably the devil is in the details, I haven't really read what they intend to change. The one thing you hear the most is prohibiting flatrate brothels. I guess if other countries legalized it too, demand would go down, but our lawmakers have no influence over that. Prostitution is already limited to certain areas of the city, but the police have trouble enforcing it. Since Romania is in the EU, you can't prevent people from coming here to work, it's also difficult to tell who works out of their own will or is forced to. Taxing prostitutes more could drive up prices, but how are you going to control/enforce that... Overall it's probably good they legalized it, but the system needs some work. At least it's better than the schizophrenic approach in other countries where prostitution is legal but customers are punished.

[Sheb]

It's not a schizophrenic approach, it's just that they consider prostitutes as victims rather than criminals.

Another issue in Germany is that very few prostitutes actually sign up for the benefits they're entitled to. Apparently only 44 out of 400,000 did so. .

[Descan]

Well, to get more detailed, I would put out an information campaign to get people to a) know their rights, both customer and producer, b) recognize an illegal business, and c) know that there are people they can turn to.

I'd also have an inspection agency to inspect the conditions of the brothel, "safety equipment", and how recent the last STD check was.

The goal would be, mainly, to destigmatize it enough that people who notice something wrong are willing to come forward, instead of being too pre-occupied with "oh god i'm using a brothel" to do so. The latter is how I'd regulate brothels, with a certification a la fire-extinguishers, "Such and such months ago this premises was inspected and received an A* rating" kind of thing, with consumers and employees legally allowed to view said certification.

So it would also get rid of that idea of "renting out buildings to self-employed women" circumvention of pimping laws, as such a thing would be illegal.

I'm all for self-employment, but when the results of said self-employment are human trafficking, pimping-in-all-but-name, and other problems, I'm a little less fond of it.

I'd also allow small-time (non-living-wage level) of paying-for-sex. So if a dude gives you 50 bucks to sleep with you, one-time-deal, you aren't going to get booked for doing it outside a brothel.

The EXACT details, I don't care. I'm not a regulator. The whole point is that it's -not that hard- to figure out how to fix shit, if you give it a few minutes thought instead of just throwing up your hands and going "I got no clue, ban it all."

AND FINALLY, it'd be very hard to get rid of human trafficking unless this was a global or near-global reform. Same with basic-income-guarantees, you have the issue of people coming to your country for the sole purpose of partaking in it, putting a strain on resources and living space. If only in terms of "Holy shit we have 5 million* people wanting to immigrate every year, how do we deal with this huge flow?!"

*Is this a lot? I don't know, Canada only has 33 million so it'd be a lot for us.

[XXSockXX]

Another issue in Germany is that very few prostitutes actually sign up for the benefits they're entitled to. Apparently only 44 out of 400,000 did so. .

I'm not sure what kind of benefits the article is talking about.
Like other selfemployed people, prostitutes can get private health insurance which they had no access to when prostitution was illegal. Since health insurance is mandatory anyway they can also remain in the public health insurance, which is cheaper and arguably not all that worse.
They would be entitled to welfare benefits, such as unemployment benefits or benefits for people with low income, if they were unemployed or had a low income, which probably does not apply.
Of course access to benefits is not the same for German/EU/non-EU- citizens.

[Owlbread]

Five million would be a lot for us because that's the same as our entire population.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Considering that the US gets only about one million immigrants a year, yeah, I'd say that's a lot.

[Owlbread]

Canada is just better though. If I say I'm going to Canada to someone over here it's always "Oh, Canada, woow. I'd love to see Canada." and then begins a discussion on how beautiful it is. The USA on the other hand... it's not got the same magic to folk over here.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's not the point. The US has been an immigration hotspot...pretty much since it's founding. And remains so far and beyond to this very day. As such, immigration to the US is probably the best metric to be using for whether something is normal or not in immigration.

[Owlbread]

I'm sorry MetalSlimeHunt, you've got to face the facts. Canada is just better.

Of course I am being facetious here.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Said the man who openly advocates that Canada should be broken into six or seven different countries.

[Owlbread]

Yes but I think that about practically every country. Except Liechtenstein perhaps; it's about as close as you can get to the state-equivalent of an atom. But... now that I consider things more carefully... isn't it the case that the counties of the microstate can declare themselves independent at will and secede?

[Descan]

I was talking applications. Even processing 5 million applications would be a huge endeavour, at least for Canada. Let alone accepting some amount of that and the effect it would have on the rest of the country. I don't know how many applications to immigrate America gets per year.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yes but I think that about practically every country. Except Liechtenstein perhaps; it's about as close as you can get to the state-equivalent of an atom. But... now that I consider things more carefully... isn't it the case that the counties of the microstate can declare themselves independent at will and secede?

So what you're telling me is that if we divide Liechtenstein, every country in the world will be broken into its component regions by the force of secession that is released by it?