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[mainiac]

Devaluation is a dirty, dirty word, obviously, but there's no denying that overly expensive € is hurting Finnish exports like a bastard.

Which is bewildering to me.  There is a time for all things and there is a time for devaluation.  50% of the time in fact.  The other 50% of the time being the time for currency appreciation.  I would think this would seem rather intuitive to anyone who stops to think about it, currencies must go up or down as the balance needs.  Yet the default assumption seems to be Lake Woebegone: all the currencies need to be above average all the time, just like the kids.

Funny, around here the old saying about the Euro being Versailles minus the War is gaining popularity again...

Funny how true things eventually get noticed.

Well actually it's not true.  The Euro is far worse then Versailles.  Under the Versailles treaty, huge amounts of capital flowed into Germany after a few years.  The Euro has imposed pro-cyclical capital flows, a negative outcome that we didn't even think was possible a few short years ago.  So it's more of a Carthaginian peace, where you put them in bondage and take away their livelihood.

[BlindKitty]

By the way, do you guys even realize how stuff like

It's from the start been about one thing: Political unification of Europe under one Euro, one Nation and one Reich.

or all the Nazi comparisons from the Greek governments sound in German ears? It's kinda like mocking an alcoholic, telling them they must've been drinking for them to behave like they do, even though they've been dry for seventy years. It kinda makes you wave your right to appeal to 'European solidarity'. And I say that as the probably most rabid EU integrationist around here.

Well, killing a few dozen millions people and destroying third of Europe does leave an impression, you see? Should have thought about that before, Germany.

Also, European solidarity doesn't seem to be a thing, so yeah.

[LordSlowpoke]

for a couple dozen pages at least the persons who were the most against european solidarity were americans, which is very representative of the union at large apparently

go figure

[SirQuiamus]

There is a time for all things and there is a time for devaluation.  50% of the time in fact.  The other 50% of the time being the time for currency appreciation.

I know, I know, but the concept has still acquired an almost taboo-word status in Finnish econopolitics discussion since the nineties, especially when it's unexpected emergency devaluation. In the everything-but-Soviet Republic of Finnistan, the 80s were an overheated period of deregulation and speculative investment, and for some inexplicable reason the politicians decided that this sudden experiment in neoliberalism had to be backed by a rock-solid pegged currency. It so happened that the purchasing power of citizens rose far above the actual domestic product, resulting in a Yuppie Orgy, and when the bubble was about to burst, the finance minister made a solemn oath to not devaluate the magical currency, with the government opting for wage cuts instead. The devaluation had to be done eventually, of course, and as a result people lost their wages and their savings, which created a public backlash comparable to the Greeks' outrage at their politicians. The 90s recession has some uncanny similarities with our current situation in Finland, as well as with Greece, but pointing that out is hugely impolite to the inhabitants of Lake Wobegone.

[Sheb]

I'm not sure what you're referring to by Lake Wobegone in this case.

[SirQuiamus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Well, that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

[mainiac]

I'm not sure what you're referring to by Lake Wobegone in this case.

where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average,"

It is not possible for all the children to be above average.  The above average need to be balanced out by the below average.  Likewise it's not possible for all countries to have their trade position strengthen.  The appreciation needs to be balanced out by depreciation somewhere else.

Germany, with the most overvalued currency in the world is insisting that they are going to drag all of Europe into an economic suicide cult as they over value the currency even more.  Because five years of literally the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression has given them nothing but an attitude for more.  And dont reply with Greece, Greece is just the outlier case.  This is about Spain, Italy, the Baltics, Ireland, every other country in the Euro.  Any sane discussion needs to start with how Germany is going to reduce it's trade surplus.  Instead you are discussing things that will pump it up!

[MarcAFK]

It's easily possible for all the people in a small town to be above the national average. Which is what this ficticious town believes.

[mainiac]

It's easily possible for all the people in a small town to be above the national average. Which is what this ficticious town believes.

That's not the joke.

[Helgoland]

Any sane discussion needs to start with how Germany is going to reduce it's trade surplus.

Why not start talking about how other countries will reduce their trade deficit? Germany simply producing less isn't good for anyone. Germany consuming more probably would be, but how are you going to force the Germans to buy more EU products without buying more Chinese and American ones?

[MarcAFK]

Import more Germans.

[LordSlowpoke]

there is already a fuckton of germans in germany

adding more germans will only make the matter worse

and don't think adding germans to switzerland will help, we'll just have more people riding pink ferraris and smashing up rooms with plastic renditions of austria attached to their crotch

[Helgoland]

They're already going 'remove Kraut REMOVE KRAUT' anyway...

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Export Germans to Russia. It almost worked in 1941

[Helgoland]

Didn't end too well for Ukraine though...