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[smjjames]

Probably scared of the economic consequences, even though leaving things as they are is probably worse.

Possibly scared of Russian interventionism???

I don't think Russia even cares about Greece. I mean the economic consequences of a Greek exit from the EU, and whatever happens to the Greek economy after that.

Pannos Kammenos has announced that he will reject the agreement.

Is that the uh, leader of the Independent Greeks party?

[MarcAFK]

I think the best bet for Greece atm is grexit followed by swift application of a wooden horse applied directly towards those supposedly running the country.

[scriver]

Interview with Varoufakis.

I'll refrain from ranting about how he's obviously - and by own admission, if one reads closely - a horribly incompetent politician. There's enough evidence for that in the interview for you guys to see on your own.

Not really seeing the incompetency, aside from the lack of will to compromise maybe and the comments about not having elections for indebted countries (which may have been sarcasm). He also wanted to do a Greek exit from the EU from the start.

No but you see he disagrees with Germany in any conceivable way, which obviously marks him as completely incompetent.

So, EU failed to remove feta, even though majority of feta wants remove? (And majority of European voters too, it would seem).

If I recall correctly the majority of Greece wants to stay in the EU.

[ChairmanPoo]

Probably not at any cost, though.  This new deal is f*ing horrible. Rather than healing the wound this is poring tar over the ulcer and hope the prospective buyers don't notice.

[wierd]

Tar is surprisingly antimicrobial. I think you are meaning something like "wallpaper paste and spakle" instead.

[martinuzz]

So, EU failed to remove feta, even though majority of feta wants remove? (And majority of European voters too, it would seem).

Perhaps it's a good thing to just get rid of majority voter's rights alltogether. After all, Hitler rose to power through majority vote too, initially </slight sarcasm>
Besides, what the tv tells the majority voters to want today might be completely different from what it tells them to want tomorrow.

[Loud Whispers]

So, EU failed to remove feta, even though majority of feta wants remove? (And majority of European voters too, it would seem).

I had a nice conversation with a Labour MP a while back from Ireland, a proper socialist (no Champagne) from an older age; he didn't think the EU would ever let Greece go because they would never dare to let go of their border with Turkey, and by extension lose control of their European border with Asia.

[martinuzz]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MarcAFK]

You can't have a productive settlement without an anvil.

[mainiac]

The incompetency of Greece is that they assumed that Germany was negotiating in good faith so they didn't strengthen their BATNA.  Strengthening their BATNA by preparing for a Grexit would have been wasteful if an agreement happened.  Greece knew that an compromise was best for all sides so assumed they shouldn't waste by preparing their BATNA.  But German voters are spoiled children who want all the benefits of the Euro and throw a childish temper tantrum if they have to pay back a fraction of those benefits.  So Mommy Merkel once again robbed Germany of it's future growth to bribe it's citizens today.

I have no clue why Greece would think for two seconds that Germany was negotiating in good faith after Germany has lied about Greece every step of the way.  It is clear that German taxpayers believe fantasies about Greece that have no bearing in reality.

Today Germany "won" the victory of kicking the can.  Their idiotic selfishness means that instead of either correcting course now or cutting their losses they will instead correct course or cut their losses again in three years when the cost will be greater.  And I have no doubt that they will spend the next three years lying to themselves about what they are doing.

The offer that Greece has accepted is worse then what Greece would have had if five months ago they had just given up on any offer at all and prepared to go it alone.  Greece had an idealistic hope that Germany actually wanted to correct the situation because THATS BEST FOR GERMANY.  But Germany would rather piss money away to prove a point.  And meanwhile the Euro still has corrected none of the imbalances which is bad for everybody but that's okay because it's least bad for Germany.  And that's what important, right?  It's not about taking care of your people, it's about making sure you "win" in comparison to those chumps across the border who dont know it's a race.

Deal in a nutshell:


They just agreed to spend the next two years making those red numbers higher and the green number lower.

mainiac, what Iceland did is much more suspect than simple bankrupcy. In effect it manage to weasel out of its requirement to have deposit insurance for its banks.

International "investors" collected arbitrage for years by using this arrangement.  They profited from it knowing damn well that they were operating without a safety net.  If you profit from a risk premium, you own the risk and they profited handsomely.

The essence of capitalism is risk.  If investors profit from risk but are protected from the consequences of that risk, they are not investors but are in fact beneficiaries of transfers.  The risks of investing in Iceland were very clear and weighed towards white elephant scenarios.

[Mr. Strange]

Looking at the discussion(s) about Feta Removal Project make it seem like people are not even speaking of the same issue. Or country.

[mainiac]

Looking at the discussion(s) about Feta Removal Project make it seem like people are not even speaking of the same issue. Or country.

It's down to those lazy greeks vs. reality:
https://fsaraceno.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/2015_06_reforms_greece_2.png

I was reading some analysis of the 2012 deal today and came across this hilarious tidbit.  The Troika was furious at the new Greek government that privatization hadn't made any progress yet.  Among their expectations was that Greece should have found private buyers for the banks nationalized in 2010.  These sales were expected to create a bit over 11 billion euros in revenues.  These were for banks who's sheet value was negative in Greece in 2012.  And they were angry it was taking Greece so long to find a buyer.

[smjjames]

No surprise that nobody in the private sector wanted to take one of the banks which were deep in debt.

[mainiac]

Not unless there is some sucker to take the red ink off the balance sheet, like the Greek, German and French taxpayers.

[XXSockXX]

And I have no doubt that they will spend the next three years lying to themselves about what they are doing.

At least I can assure you that nobody here believes that this "deal" will last very long. People generally seem to believe that Greece will not keep the deal, depending which side they're on either because Greece can't or doesn't want to.
It's clearly an attempt to delay the issue to keep Greece in the Eurozone at all cost and it is generally not seen as a great victory for anyone. Next negotiation tournament is going to start within the next 3 months probably.

So Mommy Merkel once again robbed Germany of it's future growth to bribe it's citizens today.

I don't think too many people here are happy with Merkel for this compromise. There are many (especially in her own party) who think she was way too lenient and that a new Drachme is the best solution right now. Then there are many who want to continue to bail out Greece to avoid looking like the bad guys.