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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1778886 times)

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16035 on: April 21, 2015, 11:31:19 am »

I think this opinion piece contains probably the best coverage of the UK general election available to the general public right now. I know it's Vice and it's fairly long but the writer completely nails it, showing the sheer enormity of what is going to happen in May this year and how the Conservatives have brought it upon themselves with their selfish, ill-conceived, bad decision making;

Quote from: Oliver Huitson, opinion piece
The British establishment is in a state of panic. Each passing day, each new opinion poll and each unsuccessful policy briefing has brought the unthinkable closer: a government of the unelectable propped up by the unspeakable. Short of some major shifts between now and the 7th of May, Miliband will be Prime Minister with the support of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. What's shaping up is not just a Tory defeat, but something much bigger: the end of the Tories as the dominant party of government, an unprecedented phase of constitutional crises in the UK. Things are about to get very messy.

Basically, British politics will be changed forever in May. It's at least as important as the '79 election that brought Thatcher in, or when Blairism swept Britain. Unlike most historic UK general elections however I think this one's going to be incredibly positive - where the establishment is dealt a body blow and the country is changed for the better. We haven't seen the like since 1945.

I should also add that the various party manifestos have been launched recently, I'm not sure if there's any still due from the main parties (UKIP I'm not sure about for instance).

Here are some links:

Conservative Manifesto
Labour Manifesto (This is very interactive and quite innovative, it's a shame not many people will read it)
Liberal Democrat Manifesto
Green Manifesto (UK-level)
SNP Manifesto

I've not been reading too much into the other manifestos yet but I do know the SNP manifesto went incredibly well by comparison. The others seemed to be very quiet affairs, but the SNP's was huge and received almost universal positive coverage. I was really taken aback by it - the journalists (one of the estates of the establishment) simply don't know what to make of it. If anyone wants to watch the launch here's a link, but it is an hour long.


You get the picture.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 11:53:34 am by Owlbread »
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IcyTea31

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16036 on: April 21, 2015, 11:36:49 am »

Saying someone is qualified for that position for having lived off forest business is like saying someone is qualified to be an architect for having lived in a house. Sadly, a good portion of populace, in Finland or anywhere, don't put their heads into politics, just their hands to be held and helped write that one "correct" number into that meaningless piece of paper so they can go get drunk and watch ice hockey or whatever.
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16037 on: April 21, 2015, 12:03:13 pm »

While British elections are gonna get shook up it seems like it's just the liberal democrats getting replaced by the SNP as the junior coalition member.  A big change but not really bigger then the last time when the system went from two parties to three.
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scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16038 on: April 21, 2015, 12:26:53 pm »

I wouldn't risk a guy named Cook getting anywhere near neither Salmon or Sturgeon.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16039 on: April 21, 2015, 12:29:54 pm »

While British elections are gonna get shook up it seems like it's just the liberal democrats getting replaced by the SNP as the junior coalition member.  A big change but not really bigger then the last time when the system went from two parties to three.

If you'd read the article you would know that the SNP are not going to be a junior coalition member. Formal coalition has been ruled out by the Labour Party. Rather, the SNP either support Labour through a confidence and supply agreement (which isn't very likely right now but it may happen) or on a vote by vote basis. This is a very different arrangement to 2010; the importance of a Vote by Vote arrangement or similar is that you can do all kinds of strange things in the House of Commons to win votes - waiting until all the MPs are having dinner in restaurants in London somewhere then calling a vote, for instance. It's all a big game, really. Look up Charles Stewart Parnell to find an example of an insurgent party holding governments to ransom and pushing for certain policies through guerilla tactics.

They are also going to be a great deal more interesting than the Liberal Democrats in that they will do everything they can to push Labour to be more "bold" (as Sturgeon herself put it) or more genuinely left-wing. To put this in perspective, we haven't had a genuinely left-wing government in the UK for over 35 years. By "genuinely left wing" I mean the kind that would seriously entertain scrapping Trident, abolishing the House of Lords (100 years late), using moderate spending increases instead of cutting public services right, left and centre... if it's Vote by Vote then it'll be fascinating to see what the SNP manage to push through or resist by drawing on rebel Labour MPs, of which there's a significant number.

Finally, the "enormity" I keep talking about is that the Conservatives are effectively sunk (so are the Labour Party). The Conservatives can be "locked out" of government in perpetuity unless they have some kind of landslide in their favour. None of the main parties are likely to secure any kind of majority again for the foreseeable future. We've moved into an era of unstable, unpredictable FPTP-enduced coalition politics where small parties that hold the balance of power can push for things that would have been unthinkable just 5 years ago. FPTP is on its last legs, I should add. Even Conservatives are wondering why they didn't back AV.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 12:36:54 pm by Owlbread »
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16040 on: April 21, 2015, 12:45:24 pm »

I had a brief discussion with someone on the election results yesterday. Unsurprisingly Mr. Hakkarainen was brought up(that uneducated, drunk, chauvinist racist bum from True Finns), and I jokingly said hes probably considered qualified for a minister's seat. One agreed: Hakkarainen could for example get become the minister for Land and Forest Economies. He was dead serious, and explained me multiple times how someone who has lived off forest business is more qualified than anyone who has ever held the same position; he would have "seen trees out of textbooks too". I voiced my actual opinion on him and also called him a clown, only to get attacked by everyone with insults on what were guessed to be my values and parties voted and provocation.

Idiots like me together with gays and women should be prevented from being able to vote. I would also probably sell the entire nation to black people and Arabs. We are all commie hippies and nothing good ever came from the likes of me.

And I only recently considered those very people reasonable. Incredible.
"commie hippie", you?

Are you sure that these people are for real and are not secretly Russian agents sent in to Finland to hybrid-warfare the democratic system from inside?
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Erkki

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16041 on: April 21, 2015, 01:08:30 pm »

"commie hippie", you?

Are you sure that these people are for real and are not secretly Russian agents sent in to Finland to hybrid-warfare the democratic system from inside?

I guess Russia is content in calling the winners of the election "loyal to Russia" in its controlled media. That should allow for more creditability if a need to call us traitors ever arises and is in line with Russia's current story making. But any way, regarding those people I've known for some time, I think bitter close mindedness and plain redneckness doesn't ask for nationality. What is worrying to me is that we are again seeing the spread of hard values, racism and nationalism through Europe, from the Atlantic to the Urals.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16042 on: April 21, 2015, 02:38:53 pm »

I think this opinion piece contains probably the best coverage of the UK general election available to the general public right now. I know it's Vice and it's fairly long but the writer completely nails it, showing the sheer enormity of what is going to happen in May this year and how the Conservatives have brought it upon themselves with their selfish, ill-conceived, bad decision making;

Quote from: Oliver Huitson, opinion piece
The British establishment is in a state of panic. Each passing day, each new opinion poll and each unsuccessful policy briefing has brought the unthinkable closer: a government of the unelectable propped up by the unspeakable. Short of some major shifts between now and the 7th of May, Miliband will be Prime Minister with the support of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. What's shaping up is not just a Tory defeat, but something much bigger: the end of the Tories as the dominant party of government, an unprecedented phase of constitutional crises in the UK. Things are about to get very messy.

Basically, British politics will be changed forever in May. It's at least as important as the '79 election that brought Thatcher in, or when Blairism swept Britain. Unlike most historic UK general elections however I think this one's going to be incredibly positive - where the establishment is dealt a body blow and the country is changed for the better. We haven't seen the like since 1945.

I should also add that the various party manifestos have been launched recently, I'm not sure if there's any still due from the main parties (UKIP I'm not sure about for instance).

Here are some links:

Conservative Manifesto
Labour Manifesto (This is very interactive and quite innovative, it's a shame not many people will read it)
Liberal Democrat Manifesto
Green Manifesto (UK-level)
SNP Manifesto

I've not been reading too much into the other manifestos yet but I do know the SNP manifesto went incredibly well by comparison. The others seemed to be very quiet affairs, but the SNP's was huge and received almost universal positive coverage. I was really taken aback by it - the journalists (one of the estates of the establishment) simply don't know what to make of it. If anyone wants to watch the launch here's a link, but it is an hour long.


You get the picture.

Thanks for bringing that article to my attention. It is spot on. Nailed it the writer sure did. Considering my political leanings, I absolutely adore the fact that a mixture of opposing reform and fucking Scotland will be the self created noose that kills the political "elite" (i.e. self important posh wankers) in this country. It is long overdue.

RedKing

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16043 on: April 21, 2015, 03:33:59 pm »

I had a brief discussion with someone on the election results yesterday. Unsurprisingly Mr. Hakkarainen was brought up(that uneducated, drunk, chauvinist racist bum from True Finns), and I jokingly said hes probably considered qualified for a minister's seat. One agreed: Hakkarainen could for example get become the minister for Land and Forest Economies. He was dead serious, and explained me multiple times how someone who has lived off forest business is more qualified than anyone who has ever held the same position; he would have "seen trees out of textbooks too". I voiced my actual opinion on him and also called him a clown, only to get attacked by everyone with insults on what were guessed to be my values and parties voted and provocation.

Idiots like me together with gays and women should be prevented from being able to vote. I would also probably sell the entire nation to black people and Arabs. We are all commie hippies and nothing good ever came from the likes of me.

And I only recently considered those very people reasonable. Incredible.
"commie hippie", you?

Are you sure that these people are for real and are not secretly Russian agents sent in to Finland to hybrid-warfare the democratic system from inside?
Russia would NEVER interfere with the domestic politics of its neighbors!
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16044 on: April 24, 2015, 09:25:36 am »

Some English political news with an international slant:

Young Republicans from America are going to be campaigning for the UK Conservatives in Enfield North (in the North of London apparently) to defend the seat against Labour, in Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire to defend against UKIP and in the Tory safe seat Windsor in Berkshire where the Queen and the rest of the Royal pedophile ringFamily live. Presumably that's a kind of reward/treat for the Americans, so they can campaign in a safe seat and see how quaint and British it all is.

It's a bit like if they were campaigning in Scotland and they were allowed to campaign near Loch Ness or Skye or something. Of course if they were trying to campaign for the Conservatives up that way they might find it a bit of a challenge. But yes, in Scotland we call that folksy touristy false/artificial/superficial nonsense "tartan shortbread tin", referring to the boxes of shortbread you can buy in tourist information shops with tartan designs on them. In Ireland they have similar stuff with all the shamrocks and leprechauns. Americans seem to call it "cookie cutter", don't they? I don't know what the English would call it.

I wonder what people on the doorsteps in Enfield and Aylesbury and such would make of all these Americans turning up on their doorstep.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 09:30:56 am by Owlbread »
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16045 on: April 24, 2015, 09:30:21 am »

Biscuit cutter?
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Frumple

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16046 on: April 24, 2015, 09:31:34 am »

... wait, why are they defending against UKIP? Aren't they like, ideological chums? At least on some issues?

Though looking at the article, it's presumably to fight vote splitting, which makes sense. Reps are perfectly willing to violently murder (usually metaphorically, at least) ideologically aligned third parties, heh.
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Caz

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16047 on: April 24, 2015, 09:33:45 am »

Really impressed by Nicola Sturgeon's debating skills currently. I think she's the only party leader in the country that isn't outright hated atm.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16048 on: April 24, 2015, 09:50:41 am »

Really impressed by Nicola Sturgeon's debating skills currently. I think she's the only party leader in the country that isn't outright hated atm.

Opinion polls do show exactly that. It's almost strange in a way that she's become so popular but maybe people just sense that she's honest, cares about the people she represents, can speak well and is actually competent. Most people in Scotland can also relate to her because 1: she's a woman (like most Scots), 2: she's of a working class background (like most Scots) and 3: she's from the central belt (like most Scots).

I think though one key difference between Sturgeon and the other leaders is that she's been on the campaign trail non-stop since 2011. Alex Salmond (though he was popular) knew that he had a problem getting through to certain demographics, so Sturgeon was used 90% of the time in his place. My impression was that she was the face of the Yes campaign. It took its toll on her but she has more experience than any other UK leader - she's at the top of her game now.

I mean, let's not forget; she wrote most of the white paper on independence - basically planning the creation of a new state, something no contemporary UK leader has done (or could do). Since 2013 she's debated about 4 times on TV with various UK politicians (2 secretaries of state for Scotland, deputy leader of the Scottish Labour Party and finally the leader of the Scottish Labour Party) and won them all, apart from the last one which was too heated to be called as straight victory for her. Ed Miliband has only really started that kind of thing this year, and David Cameron is doing everything he possibly can to avoid debates or be placed under scrutiny. They're all completely outclassed.

... wait, why are they defending against UKIP? Aren't they like, ideological chums? At least on some issues?

Though looking at the article, it's presumably to fight vote splitting, which makes sense. Reps are perfectly willing to violently murder (usually metaphorically, at least) ideologically aligned third parties, heh.

UKIP and the Republicans are the closest ideological matches I think in terms of US/UK political parties. I think the reason they're not supporting each other officially though is there is a certain establishment in the Republican Party (at odds with the Tea Party perhaps) that would rather see the Tories elected than UKIP.

I decided to have a look at the SNP.

Does the rest of the UK have a party like that? The only thing I've seen that I really disagree on is the nuclear stuff, which is far less than most other parties.

As far as I can tell, unfortunately not. Maybe the UK Greens will grow into something closer to the SNP over time; this election could kickstart their development towards something like that. The problem is in a way that the UK Greens are almost trying to be like the Scottish Greens and the SSP combined - coming out with some far out, radical ideas. I mean, they're not that radical, but they're still too much for England. England isn't ready for that kind of thing just yet, England's ready for something like the SNP. There needs to be some kind of halfway house.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 09:57:47 am by Owlbread »
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16049 on: April 24, 2015, 09:56:39 am »

Some English political news with an international slant:

Young Republicans from America are going to be campaigning for the UK Conservatives in Enfield North (in the North of London apparently) to defend the seat against Labour, in Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire to defend against UKIP and in the Tory safe seat Windsor in Berkshire where the Queen and the rest of the Royal pedophile ringFamily live. Presumably that's a kind of reward/treat for the Americans, so they can campaign in a safe seat and see how quaint and British it all is.

It's a bit like if they were campaigning in Scotland and they were allowed to campaign near Loch Ness or Skye or something. Of course if they were trying to campaign for the Conservatives up that way they might find it a bit of a challenge. But yes, in Scotland we call that folksy touristy false/artificial/superficial nonsense "tartan shortbread tin", referring to the boxes of shortbread you can buy in tourist information shops with tartan designs on them. In Ireland they have similar stuff with all the shamrocks and leprechauns. Americans seem to call it "cookie cutter", don't they? I don't know what the English would call it.

I wonder what people on the doorsteps in Enfield and Aylesbury and such would make of all these Americans turning up on their doorstep.

I was going to say 'what are the American politicians doing campaigning in the UK?', then I saw that the parties in the UK actually inviting them over. Not sure why you guys actually want us meddling in your politics, but umkay.....
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