Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[LordSlowpoke]

If Israel barges in Syria, I expect another Blood bath.
One that will end with Israel in charge of the Entire Middle-East.

Why would Israel want that?

I don't exactly put it above them - or their leadership - to be jingoistic enough to find that annexing the whole of the Middle East is the only way to guarantee their security. Which would in turn be a beautiful catalyst for the whole regional population to turn to extremism, because the "peaceful approach" has been long proven to fuck you over over there. Let's see what shadenight has to say about it, though...

[Owlbread]

I certainly put it above them. It's not the way things are done anymore, countries don't annex other countries these days and it's not in Israel's interests to consider stuff like that. The very idea of Israel conquering everything WW2 style is just fantasy.

[shadenight123]

I was referring to the previous Israelian wars.

Even with all the neighbor countries against them, they still won, and had the EU not intervened, there wouldn't be an Egypt any more, but an Israel. There wouldn't be a Palestine, but an Israel. That's a matter of fact. The European Union had to plead Israel to stop, and Israel stopped. Look it up on the Wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Israeli_conflict

This, in particular, is funny enough to be re-delivered once more.

That day, the armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq invaded/intervened in what had just ceased to be the British Mandate, marking the beginning of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The nascent Israeli Defense Force repulsed the Arab League nations from part of the occupied territories, thus extending its borders beyond the original UNSCOP partition.[30] By December 1948, Israel controlled most of the portion of Mandate Palestine west of the Jordan River.

You counting those states? You seeing what I'm seeing?
Israel was alone against Five States, Five States against a country recently formed by people who escaped from a Nazi Europe and a world war.

They agreed to peace afterwards, but the fact remains. The Middle-East exists only because Israel was asked to stop. If nobody had, there would only be Israel now instead of those countries.

In 1956, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, and blockaded the Gulf of Aqaba, in contravention of the Constantinople Convention of 1888. Many argued that this was also a violation of the 1949 Armistice Agreements.[38][39] On July 26, 1956, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company, and closed the canal to Israeli shipping.[40] Israel responded on October 29, 1956, by invading the Sinai Peninsula with British and French support. During the Suez Canal Crisis, Israel captured the Gaza Strip and Sinai Peninsula. The United States and the United Nations soon pressured it into a ceasefire.[40][41] Israel agreed to withdraw from Egyptian territory.

No Egypt, only Israel.
That's the point I'm saying, if Israel enters the war scratch it being over easily. They have the resources to end it completely. They just need to do it. History has proven them right time and time again. Question is, how long till they realize it?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Defending your nation's boarders is one thing, taking and holding hostile territory is quite another. Israel can barely deal with Gaza, and you think they could hold the entire Middle East?

[10ebbor10]

To be fair, Israel was supported in it's wars by several Western nations, while the weaponry of the other's was still fairly primitive. They can't do such a steamroll anymore.

Also, Turkey and the EU will stop such a consolidation attempt. (Not that they can hold on to that territory anyway. It's asking for massive troubles.)

Defending your nation's boarders is one thing, taking and holding hostile territory is quite another. Israel can barely deal with Gaza, and you think they could hold the entire Middle East?

The last wars were hardly defensive. Most of the fighting was on enemy terretories. They can't redo that though. Also, the Gaza problem is mainly due to international pressure preventing them to take cruel, but effective measures. (the current ones are cruel but ineffective)

[shadenight123]

They don't need to hold it. They need to remove the problem.

It is difficult to hold on to a country if the people are against you. It isn't difficult to conquer it, kill the key figures of the regimes against you, and then leave so that the nation fights itself to death on who should lead afterwards.

The key point being that Israel's armies have been proven to be superior, repeatedly, to those of its neighboring states. Hence, if they help Assad out, it will turn into a bloodbath. Because if Israel Intervenes for Assad, then Egypt and the rest will go against. And it will be another bloodbath.

[10ebbor10]

There's a pretty wide anti Israel basis. I mean, the difference in Faith should go a long way, and they haven't forgotten what happened to the Palestinians.

[LordSlowpoke]

They don't need to hold it. They need to remove the problem.

It is difficult to hold on to a country if the people are against you. It isn't difficult to conquer it, kill the key figures of the regimes against you, and then leave so that the nation fights itself to death on who should lead afterwards.

The key point being that Israel's armies have been proven to be superior, repeatedly, to those of its neighboring states. Hence, if they help Assad out, it will turn into a bloodbath. Because if Israel Intervenes for Assad, then Egypt and the rest will go against. And it will be another bloodbath.

Are you advocating the invasion, occupation, murdering the intelligentsia of and then withdrawal from said countries right now. I'm really toning it down because at first glance you're going in for a no holds barred genocide of everything all the way to the Caucasus, Himalayas and Sahaha/Atlantic. Soviets did the former. Their otherpart would gladly do the latter to the country you support. Pardon the question, but why haven't I talked to a single zionist who wasn't part of this hopefully outspoken minority? Do you live in Israel, even?

[shadenight123]

Lordslowpoke...you aren't reading me.

I'm stating that IF Israel enters the war, it might become a bloodbath. Not because Israel will suddenly start genociding the world, but because it will make angrier the other states, the ones that have a chip on the shoulder over that state for simply existing.

And I know that the last time, Israel avoided an all-nuclear war against Soviet Union because America had her leave the territories occupied.
But the facts remains. Israel is advocating intervening in the conflict, and if they do, it will downspiral from that.
And killing Key Figures of Regime is no different than stating 'Liberation War'. Something Americans used as justification, didn't they?

Chill out, I'm not for genocide. I'm just stating what History tells us of how conflicts end every time Israel intervenes in one.
They fight, Israel wins, the big shots come and have the state 'tone down' otherwise bigger problem happen.
Read the Wiki page at least!

[LordSlowpoke]

My apologies, if so. My anti-zionist bias is a bit too strong to be considered healthy and at "they need to remove the problem" my mind jumped to "the final solution to the Arab question". Yesterday's discussion re: conspiracies made me feel this is actually plausible worldview for people to hold here... bah.

[shadenight123]

No harm done.

[Owlbread]

A Russian artist is now seeking political asylum after his paintings have been seized, the most controversial of which being Putin and Medvedev in women's underwear with Putin doing Medvedev's hair. The artist also painted an anti-gay activist with a rainbow and the head of the Orthodox church (Kirill or something) barechested with Soviet-era prison tattoos.

I'm quietly hoping this sort of thing is going to shake the juvenile support some people on internet communities have been showing for Putin in recent years.

[kaijyuu]

There's a hell of a lot more people to blame for that sort of shit than just Putin. Though of course, that's no defense of Putin.

[Owlbread]

Putin is just the figurehead representing an infestation of gangsters.

[Nadaka]

There's a pretty wide anti Israel basis. I mean, the difference in Faith should go a long way, and they haven't forgotten what happened to the Palestinians.

Happening...

Israel has not stopped its campaign of ethnic cleansing.