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[anzki4]

I think I'll join this thread I've lurked for a while by saying that the Finnish Parliament is going to vote on gender-neutral marriage law starting about 2 hours from now. There have been many voices on both sides of the issue, and the vote is expected to be a very close one.

Just went trough.

[scriver]

It means consent applies to the moment it is given in. Consent only last as long as there's consenting.

[Reelya]

https://contemporaryfamilies.org/impact-of-conservative-protestantism-on-regional-divorce-rates/

one of the strongest factors predicting divorce rates (per 1000 married couples) is the concentration of conservative or evangelical Protestants in that county.

Maybe it's poverty then?

even controlling for income and region, divorce rates tend to be especially high in areas where conservative religious groups are prominent.

It turns out that people who simply live in counties with high proportions of religious conservatives are also more likely to divorce than their counterparts elsewhere.

Nope, it's not correlated with income. Just living near conservatives is enough to make you despise your fellow humans enough to get divorced.

[Sergarr]

I'd imagine if you push for people never divorcing and also behave like a reactionary, you get reverse psychology-ed in the face.

These guys really should study more psychology if they want to stay relevant in the new world.

[IcyTea31]

92 Yea (Keep old legislation), 105 Nay (Amend the law to be gender-neutral), 0 empty, 2 didn't vote.

So yeah, it's now legal to marry regardless of gender in Finland. Whether the Church will bless said marriages is another question, though.

[Sergarr]

...why "yea" vote is "keep the old legislation"?

Sounds weird.

[Erkki]

And voting closed. 105-92 (2 absent) for the new law for a gender-neutral marriage which means it'll get passed to be possibly reformed and tweaked before another round of voting.


fakedit:

92 Yea (Keep old legislation), 105 Nay (Amend the law to be gender-neutral), 0 empty, 2 didn't vote.

So yeah, it's now legal to marry regardless of gender in Finland. Whether the Church will bless said marriages is another question, though.

Not quite yet. It can still fall in the second voting which will probably be in 6 months or so.

...why "yea" vote is "keep the old legislation"?

Sounds weird.

Because the vote was for abandoning the law.

[IcyTea31]

The vote was for the objection to the law proposal. Yes, it doesn't make sense.

[Yannanth]

There is, it's called polyamory.

Actually, it would be polygamy, not polyamory. Polyamory is multiple relationships, polygamy is multiple marriages (like for Muslim men and in this tribe in Kenya among other societies).

[Descan]

There is, it's called polyamory.

Actually, it would be polygamy, not polyamory. Polyamory is multiple relationships, polygamy is multiple marriages (like for Muslim men and in this tribe in Kenya among other societies).

The people advocating for it use the term polyamory to distance themselves from groups like Mormons and conservative Muslims.

It's seen as a more neutral term, compared to polygamy which is seen as a male-dominated term.

[Helgoland]

Polygamy means one man, several women! The distaff counterpart is polygyny - I'm not aware of any gender-neutral form.

[smjjames]

polyamory is probably as close to a gender-neutral term as it gets.

[Descan]

Well, just going by definitions: polygamy = gender neutral term for multiple marriage, polyandry = Multiple men, polygyny = multiple women, polyamory = relationship-centered instead of marriage.

But in terms of actual use, most people have never heard of the latter three, they mainly think of Muslim and Mormon multiple-women marriages when they hear polygamy, and the (generally liberal) people who advocate for allowing multiple-person relationships use the term polyamory.

[Sheb]

Also, while making marriage gender-neutral is pretty straightforward (Actually, it's simpler than the old form), opening marriage to polyamourous relationships would be extremely complicated, from a purely legal point of view.

[Wolfhunter107]

http://news.yahoo.com/france-recognize-palestinian-state-peace-efforts-fail-112100561.html

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

PARIS (Reuters) - France warned on Friday it would recognize a Palestinian state if a final international effort to overcome the impasse between Israelis and Palestinians failed, and proposed a two-year timeframe to end the conflict through a U.N.-backed resolution.

Lawmakers will hold a symbolic parliamentary vote on Dec. 2 on whether the French government should recognize Palestine as a state, a move that the Israeli Prime Minister has called a "grave mistake".

"If this final effort to reach a negotiated solution fails, then France will have to do what it takes by recognizing without delay the Palestinian state. We are ready," Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius told parliament.

The parliamentary vote has raised domestic political pressure for the government to be more active on the issue. An IFOP poll showed 63 percent of French support a Palestinian state.

French UMP political party deputy Herve Mariton …
French UMP political party deputy Herve Mariton attends a debate on Palestine status at the National …
Fabius told deputies that, were they to adopt the motion, it would not change Paris' immediate diplomatic stance.

But he said that, after similar moves in Sweden, Britain, Ireland and Spain, Paris could not ignore the "never-ending" conflict that was playing into extremists' hands.

"There needs to be support, some would say pressure, from the international community to help the two sides make the final step to peace," Fabius said.

Palestinians seek statehood in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and blockaded Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as their capital - lands captured by Israel in a 1967 war.

The latest round of efforts to forge a two-state solution collapsed in April. Palestinians see little choice but to push unilaterally for statehood.

French Foreign Minister Fabius delivers a speech …
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius delivers a speech during a debate on Palestine status at the  …
Fabius said Paris was working to get a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted that would relaunch and conclude negotiations within two years.

Diplomats have said France, Britain and Germany are preparing a text that could be accelerated if a separate resolution drafted by Palestinians, and calling for an end to Israeli occupation by November 2016, is put forward.

"We must fix a calendar because without one how do you convince anybody that it won't just be another process?" Fabius said.

He proposed that in parallel a conference be held with regional actors, European Union, Arab League and major powers.

He did not specify at what stage France could decide to back a Palestinian state, but a diplomat said that it could happen anytime if Paris felt negotiations were dead.

French deputy Gilbert Collard delivers a speech …
French deputy Gilbert Collard delivers a speech during a debate on Palestine status at the National  …
France does not classify Palestine as a state, but has supported Palestine's membership of UNESCO and its non-member observer country status at the United Nations.

Viva La France!