Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[Sheb]

Russia is only big in land, it's got a tenth of China's population and a fifth of its GDP (And the gap is growing).To compare, the UK got a fifth of the US population and GDP, and no one outside Westminster would say the US and UK are equal allies.

The Chinese may be "too Chinese" to be in an alliance of equal, but I don't see a problem with them leading a bloc. The issue is that Russia thinks its much bigger than it is, so it will probably end up isolated rather than join a bloc it doesn't dominate.

And yeah, Russia is more powerful than 2000, which was kind of a low point. But they're still dependent on oil and gas, still lacking allies, etc etc.

P.S. I've seen somewhere that Russia is dismantling weapons plants from rebel-held areas and shipping them home. But it didn't cite sources, anyone heard about this?

[miljan]

Russia is only big in land, it's got a tenth of China's population and a fifth of its GDP (And the gap is growing).To compare, the UK got a fifth of the US population and GDP, and no one outside Westminster would say the US and UK are equal allies.

The Chinese may be "too Chinese" to be in an alliance of equal, but I don't see a problem with them leading a bloc. The issue is that Russia thinks its much bigger than it is, so it will probably end up isolated rather than join a bloc it doesn't dominate.

And yeah, Russia is more powerful than 2000, which was kind of a low point. But they're still dependent on oil and gas, still lacking allies, etc etc.

P.S. I've seen somewhere that Russia is dismantling weapons plants from rebel-held areas and shipping them home. But it didn't cite sources, anyone heard about this?

The thing is russia is the one actually pushing for alliance for some time now.

Russia is big on land and more importantly resources.
Saying russia doesn't have allies is very ignorant from you. West is not the whole world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

This will probably evolve over time to some version of a new block.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

China will dominate the relationship as they already do

[Sergarr]

The Chinese don't really have any other countries with which to form a NATO-like bloc, because almost every single country around China has serious issues with it. Mainly because Chinese are (mostly) arrogant bastards who believe that the China is superior to all other countries because it is China and consider all other countries as "inferior" to the Heavenly Empire.

Granted, they can try to lead the bloc consisting of one single country...

P.S.: China can never dominate any relationships because their ability to project force outside their country is hilariously bad. This is why they build a Great Wall.

The China in its history has made many, many attempts to conquer land beyond its borders. They all failed. All of them, completely failed.

Because it is China.

[Sheb]

 The SCO is a nice talking shop, but it's not an alliance. And yeah, Russia does have some real allies: Assad, Belarus and a bunch of 'stan in Central Asia. Big fucking deal.

As for China, yeah, it might end up dominating an alliance with Russia, that could be a bloc, but I hardly see this happening. As Sergarr said, they've been pretty bad at diplomacy. (I mean, Vietnam is now aligning with the US, which litterally turned half of the country into a chemical garbage dump 40 years ago).

[Sergarr]

The SCO is a nice talking shop, but it's not an alliance. And yeah, Russia does have some real allies: Assad, Belarus and a bunch of 'stan in Central Asia. Big fucking deal.

As for China, yeah, it might end up dominating an alliance with Russia, that could be a bloc, but I hardly see this happening. As Sergarr said, they've been pretty bad at diplomacy. (I mean, Vietnam is now aligning with the US, which litterally turned half of the country into a chemical garbage dump 40 years ago).

The 'stans and (possibly) Belarus "allies" the same way the Austria and Prussia were "allies" to the Russian Empires in the Crimean War.
With "allies" like that, you don't need enemies...
Assad doesn't really counts because he cannot help anyone, what with IS controlling half of Syria and stuff like that.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Of course China isn't the most powerful potential bloc leader in the area. Of course they aren't leading Russia into a subordinate relationship due to Russia willingly severing its relationship with the other groups of the world and being forced to turn to the only other non-negligible economic partner out of necessity. Continue to build their new pipeline at Moscows expense, it's exactly what is in Russia's interests.

Of course Russia is the leader in their relationship. This is exactly how China positions it as well. You can call it smart geopolitics.

[Sergarr]

Bloc leader of who and who, exactly? Russia and China alone do not really constitute a whole bloc, and all other countries? Will never join forces with China.

And China cannot subordinate a little island called Taiwan and a little country called Tibet, what makes you think they can subordinate Russia?

[Sheb]

Yeah, my point exactly. Russia doesn't really have allies, not in any meaningful sense. China doesn't either (Yeah, North Korea. Great!) Compare to the US allies (NATO, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, the Philipines... And then you've got the Rio treaty too.

[Sergarr]

Yeah, my point exactly. Russia doesn't really have allies, not in any meaningful sense. China doesn't either (Yeah, North Korea. Great!) Compare to the US allies (NATO, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, the Philipines... And then you've got the Rio treaty too.

Given the amount of CIA bullshit the USA has done to the South America, I wouldn't really consider them US allies...

The people over there hate US with a passion.

[Sheb]

Agreed, the Rio treaty isn't really useful anymore. Still, there's a few US ally there, 4 of the smaller countries sent troops to Iraq.

And China cannot subordinate a little island called Taiwan and a little country called Tibet, what makes you think they can subordinate Russia?

Taiwan is under US protection (Yet another US ally) and Tibet is pretty subordinate. But anyway, no one claimed China is out to invade Russia. Just that if a Chinese-Russia alliance form, it's going to be a very unequal one, with China in effect leading it.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Bloc leader of who and who, exactly? Russia and China alone do not really constitute a whole bloc, and all other countries? Will never join forces with China.

And China cannot subordinate a little island called Taiwan and a little country called Tibet, what makes you think they can subordinate Russia?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/china-growth-a-potential-threat-to-russia/4721810

[Sergarr]

There's a non-zero chance that in about 10 years China suffers catastrophic ecology failure from all the unclean production, which will cause them to lose their economical growth, which will in turn lead to the internal collapse as the people will rise in rebellion, demanding their anuual 8% wage increases.

[smjjames]

Bloc leader of who and who, exactly? Russia and China alone do not really constitute a whole bloc, and all other countries? Will never join forces with China.

And China cannot subordinate a little island called Taiwan and a little country called Tibet, what makes you think they can subordinate Russia?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/china-growth-a-potential-threat-to-russia/4721810

They're a potential threat to the whole region, not just Russia.

There's a non-zero chance that in about 10 years China suffers catastrophic ecology failure from all the unclean production, which will cause them to lose their economical growth, which will in turn lead to the internal collapse as the people will rise in rebellion, demanding their anuual 8% wage increases.

Ecology faliure? Try economic failiure when the massive bubble of theirs explodes/implodes/bursts/pick your visual metaphor.

Also, why are we talking about China in an European politics thread? Unless you want to connect it to Europe by way of Russia.

[Sergarr]

Because the Asian thread was unused for a long time and thus forgotten.