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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1702047 times)

da_nang

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10890 on: September 14, 2014, 02:50:26 pm »

They're mainly anti-immigration. More pure fascism/nazism is found in SvP (The Swedes' Party).
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10891 on: September 14, 2014, 02:58:16 pm »

They're not fascists, they're UKIP-style right-populists with a hard on for xenophobia in general and expelling migrants specifically.
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Tjoh

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10892 on: September 14, 2014, 03:01:40 pm »

Like the rest of europe, anti-immigration has been on the rise with SD (the swedish democrats) being the only viable anti-immigration party in Sweden. None of the other parties in the riksdag want to work with them since they are seen as a bunch of racists. They got into the riksdag during the 2010 election and have only risen since.
There have been a couple of scandals with SD politicians saying and doing some very racist things and even with their leader claiming that they have zero-tolerance for that, they keep happening.

For the last eight years sweden has been ruled by the alliance, an coalition consisting of the christian democrats, the liberals, the centre and lead by the moderate party. Now it seems like they will lose to the red-greens, but there has been some infighting with the social democrats saying that they do not want to form a government with the left. Nobody is really sure how they are going to form a government this time. If the left leaves them, they won't have enough to form a government.

We might also get a new party in the riksdag called the feminist initiative if they get more than 4% of the votes. They don't want to be part of the government making this election very unsure and wierd. They have gained an enormous amount of support, but we're unsure if they actually will break the barrier.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10893 on: September 14, 2014, 03:02:24 pm »

But russian economy will get a hit now because of things in ukraine, as same as a lot (or better said several) of EU countries.
Rise of economy  is true. I thhink it is more related to OIL prices than to Putin's ruling

But my vision that economy of a country is like total cost of the house. With everything inside. It may have great value because it is full of expensive furniture and stuff... But if walls of that house are cracked and roof will collapse soon it total value means nothing. Or if you  have house full of mercury vapors (or some other slowly killing poison) quality of walls and furniture play a little role.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Lagslayer

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10894 on: September 14, 2014, 03:06:33 pm »

I do love how America's reputation alternates between evil literal fascists and libertine destroyers of Our People depending upon the speaker. Such a wide range of opinion.
If there's a group you hate, you can find it in America.
It's like the world's Wal-Mart.

WarRoot

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10895 on: September 14, 2014, 03:14:52 pm »

@Tjoh
Feminist initiative? One would think you don't need a party for that in Sweden. What do they want?
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scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10896 on: September 14, 2014, 03:18:51 pm »

And for further clarification of those rightwing parties Tjoh (great name by the way) mentioned, as their names are a bit misleading:

Moderates - Biggest rightwing party, traditionally the second or third furthest to the right. Not particularly "moderate" at all.
The Centreparty - Used to be actually at the centre and were one of the main companions of the Socialst Democrats during the 1900's. Traditionally very rural- and environmentally-concerned, but during the 2000's they've had a heavy influx of big-city neoliberals to the point that they've basically abandoned most of their old standpoints.

And as always, the use of "liberal" here is more in line with what Americans would call conservatives than liberals. Sort of.


@Tjoh
Feminist initiative? One would think you don't need a party for that in Sweden. What do they want?

More feminist perspective in the government, basically. I'm not very up to date on the details of their policies these days.
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10897 on: September 14, 2014, 03:20:34 pm »

But russian economy will get a hit now because of things in ukraine, as same as a lot (or better said several) of EU countries.
Rise of economy  is true. I thhink it is more related to OIL prices than to Putin's ruling

But my vision that economy of a country is like total cost of the house. With everything inside. It may have great value because it is full of expensive furniture and stuff... But if walls of that house are cracked and roof will collapse soon it total value means nothing. Or if you  have house full of mercury vapors (or some other slowly killing poison) quality of walls and furniture play a little role.
The walls of Russia are it's army and fleet.
The air inside Russia is it's media.
The roof of Russia is it's air forces and anti-aircraft systems.
The foundation of Russia is the faith of the people in Russia and it's government.

All these things are currently standing much stronger than they did in 2000. I wouldn't worry about our economy.

But for Ukraine... the army is unable to protect the border, the media is non-centralized and only creates more panic, the air forces are very weak, and the faith of the people in Ukraine's government is very, very slim.

And besides, Russia has survived the oil prices going down to 40$ per barrel without going through default. A mere 80$ is not going to destroy Russia.

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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10898 on: September 14, 2014, 03:26:17 pm »

Yeah, Russia may not be brilliant, but it really sucked back in the early '00. Although I'm curious Sergarr, do you really regard Putin's control of the media as a good thing?
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Tjoh

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10899 on: September 14, 2014, 03:27:23 pm »

Thanks for clarifying what the parties stand for, Scriver. I kind of forgot that we're very much to the left of american standards.

FI wants equal rights for everyone, no matter gender or sexuality. Anti-racism. Open borders, six-hour workday, make all non-consentual sex illegal (don't ask me, I don't really know how rape is defined currently) Get rid of the weapon export, even less money to the military.

They are a mix between the left, the greens and modern feminism.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10900 on: September 14, 2014, 03:41:29 pm »

I do love how America's reputation alternates between evil literal fascists and libertine destroyers of Our People depending upon the speaker. Such a wide range of opinion.
If there's a group you hate, you can find it in America.
<3 America for it

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10901 on: September 14, 2014, 03:52:09 pm »

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The foundation of Russia is the faith of the people in Russia and it's government.
Awful foundation, really. Collapse will be sudden and violent.

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But for Ukraine... the army is unable to protect the border, the media is non-centralized and only creates more panic, the air forces are very weak
Yes years of neglecting armed forces of Ukraine is same as ignoring repairing walls of your home. Yet I find funny if you believe that Russian army is in better state. It is not that successful against what is not an actual army.  And that is the best part of Russian Forces. The rest 80% of Army are plain useless. Of cause your media that doesn't spread panic will never tell you that

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and the faith of the people in Ukraine's government is very, very slim.
Funny is how you think that this is a bad thing.
Yeah, we don't trust that bastards and learning to control them. Can't say that we learned to do that like Western society do (not that them 100% control politicians)... but we keep going that long road


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And besides, Russia has survived the oil prices going down to 40$ per barrel without going through default. A mere 80$ is not going to destroy Russia.
Hmmm. I'd love to see something like three  years with average yearly price  of $80 per barrel of Urals to check the statement. Doubt that it will happen :)
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Tjoh

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10902 on: September 14, 2014, 03:59:41 pm »

5473 of 5837 districts have been counted. The red-greens got 43,6%, The alliance got 39,4% and SD got 13,0%. FI got 3,1% and didn't get into the riksdag, but they got a lot more power in municipal and regional matters. All the alliance parties lost votes, with the moderates losing about 6,9% and 23 seats. SD went from 20 to 49 seats.

Things will certainly be interesting. S will in all likelyhood form a new minority goverment with Stefan Löfven as prime minister.
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10903 on: September 14, 2014, 04:34:19 pm »

To UR:
1) There won't be a collapse while the media is under Putin's control, because there will be nobody to spread panic around.

2) We certainly have much more long-distance fighting option than you, like Iskander missiles, or strategic bombers. The quality of troops doesn't matter much if you can just pummel your enemy from a distance. And we certainly have enough elite units to mop up what's remaining. Do you think we defeat Georgia in seven days by being weak?

3) "Control"? Do you really think you "control" your politicians now? Oh yeah, keep telling yourself that, while your patriots keep dying on the front, while the politicians behind continue to send them there.
You'll never control your politicians if you allow them to send you to die while they remain in complete safety. Please tell me, how's that "lustration" going? Last time I heard exactly zero people got in jail because of it.
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martinuzz

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10904 on: September 14, 2014, 04:40:36 pm »

To UR:
1) There won't be a collapse while the media is under Putin's control, because there will be nobody to spread panic around.

Lenin helped with 'The Worker's Cause' news sheet (and was arrested for it), and later funded Искра, at a time when most if not all media where under tsarist control too you know..
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