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[FritzPL]

You clearly haven't read the statement I made on the previous page where I said that the EU was the only international Union I was comfortable with, and I would rather remove the "European" component and create something called the International Federation, something even Russia could join. Uniting the countries of the world in a union where they can enjoy close ties but full international representation and the right to secede is a step in the right direction, because otherwise we'll just get countries like Russia eroding the independence of their neighbours.

So you're basically saying that there should be an international union where everyone can enjoy the benefits of dotations, some sort of army force protecting those that can't invest that 2% of the GDP from foreign aggression, free loans, free golden toilets in households of those representing their nation in the union, etc. and at the same time they can abandon ship when it starts to go bad? It's like making a charity that gives out money to those who need want it and gets shut down soon after opening due to bankrupcy. It's just not going to work.

Ukrainian Ranger: it worked for the cossacks. (although they did have slightly larger knives)

Loud Whispers: Oh, you have no idea. Every single political wing is pissing themselves more or less about having a NATO base in our country. Hell, the guy on the right (our president it would appear) as soon as it was announced that an announcement of announcing the creation of the base would be coming soon, he said something along the lines of "it's not a discussion whether it is a base or not" because that's what was happening in the media: is a NATO veteran officer training our troops considered a NATO base? Is that American anti-missile system considered a NATO base? Lots and lots of bullshit over obvious things.

Guy's face(can't recall who he is) is priceless.

[smjjames]

Poland's reaction to Cameron's pledged support.

Is he frowning while being surprised at the same time? I'm confused.

[FritzPL]

I would imagine it's more like this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah.
We're really counting on NATO's forces coming here as a deterrent in Poland. It's mostly the Eastern provinces that are afraid of war - rural areas, with not many young adults - when the draft comes, it's gonna be even worse for the farmers there. And, of course, the war. That's scary, too.

[scrdest]

Kind of a 'Huh. Wasn't expecting that' or 'Well, at least we have that' or, in meme fashion, 'not bad'

I'd say that it can be safely said it's a 'Huh.'. The matter of huh what, exactly, hard to tell.

[mainiac]

That makes for a pretty good tripwire.  Can't invade Poland without prompting all out war with NATO.

[RedKing]

Guy's face(can't recall who he is) is priceless.

That would be the Polish Minister of National Defence, Tomasz Siemoniak.


And there shouldn't be a need for a tripwire. As a NATO member, Poland itself should be sufficient to be the tripwire. I'm thinking its more of a "we're not going to have a repeat of 1939 again" where merely being allied to the UK didn't do shit to save the Poles. 3500's not going to do a lot if Putin decided to go all in, but it's got to be at least somewhat more reassuring to Poland. And mobilization and response times are a LOT better now than they were 75 years ago.

Though the reaction makes me wonder if Cameron just pulled this out of his ass, because you would think you would inform the Defense Minister of a country if you were going to deploy a few thousand allied troops there.

[FritzPL]

No, he didn't; we were waiting for this a long time, it's been announced before, just nobody in NATO wanted to be the first one to go. And I imagine the real tripwire is going to be one of the Baltic states, or possibly Belarus, as it has been dropping their tactic of being faithful towards their senior and being a good vassal - the embargo on rural products (mainly apples) that Russia put on Poland is being bypassed by Belarus; they ship the apples there, repack them under a Belarussian name, and send them to Russia. Although, I would imagine that Polish farmers barely make any profit on that (on the national markets, apple prices are as low as 0.99 zł/kg - 1PLN = 4.19EUR), so it's mostly for increasing Polish-Belarussian relations and still delivering Russian citizens what we've exported the most in the past.

[mainiac]

And I imagine the real tripwire is going to be one of the Baltic states,

A tripwire is a deployment of troops in an allied country which would be unavoidably involved in any invasion of said country.  This makes it certain that any war will involve the country deploying the tripwire troops.  For instance 5% or so of the troops defending South Korea are American, because that way it's 100% clear to the North Koreans that an attack on South Korea means a war with the US Air Force and the 7th Fleet.  Of course that would be the case anyway but by making the deterrent a little more explicit it's more effective because there is less chance of miscommunication.

[Guardian G.I.]

That makes for a pretty good tripwire.  Can't invade Poland without prompting all out war with NATO.

There's no clear reason whatsoever for Russia to invade Poland or the Baltic states. Will the Putin's bloody regime collapse without control over the strategic deposits of Latvian canned fish?
There is a clear reason for Russian meddling in Ukraine - if Russia didn't intervene in the Crimea, the Russian Black Sea Fleet would be booted out of Sevastopol, and Ukrainian territory would host NATO forces aiming their guns at Russia. There's also a clear reason and motivation for any possible NATO invasion of Russia, no matter how implausible you may find it - I've talked about it before here. But why would Russia attack Poland or the Baltic states? All speculated reasons are purely ideological like "Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire", but he's not a Russian nationalist and hasn't been one.

[scrdest]

No, he didn't; we were waiting for this a long time, it's been announced before, just nobody in NATO wanted to be the first one to go. And I imagine the real tripwire is going to be one of the Baltic states, or possibly Belarus, as it has been dropping their tactic of being faithful towards their senior and being a good vassal - the embargo on rural products (mainly apples) that Russia put on Poland is being bypassed by Belarus; they ship the apples there, repack them under a Belarussian name, and send them to Russia. Although, I would imagine that Polish farmers barely make any profit on that (on the national markets, apple prices are as low as 0.99 zł/kg - 1PLN = 4.19EUR), so it's mostly for increasing Polish-Belarussian relations and still delivering Russian citizens what we've exported the most in the past.

You got the exchange rate backwards xD

1 EUR = 4.19 PLN, so 1 PLN = 1/4.19 EUR, so around 0.23-0.24 EUR by a guesstimate.

[MonkeyHead]

Sorry, I can not make the logical leap of NATO wanting to attack Russia and Russia not wanting to invade its ex-territories.

[LordSlowpoke]

nato wanting to invade russia is the same case as russia invading georgia - if you're not subservient to us, you're against us

russia wouldn't get away with poland/baltic states because nato

it's that simple

[MonkeyHead]

So as NATO does not want Russia to invade other NATO states, Russia thinks NATO wants to invade it? Seems to fit with the propaganda/mindset expressed by some around here...

[XXSockXX]

There's no clear reason whatsoever for Russia to invade Poland or the Baltic states. Will the Putin's bloody regime collapse without control over the strategic deposits of Latvian canned fish?

I agree that Russia probably has very little interest in invading Poland. The fears in the Baltic are more understandable (historical parts of the Russian Empire / Soviet Union, sizeable Russian minorities, possible landbridge to Kaliningrad, minor border incidents). I don't think there is an imminent threat, but Putin's aggressive behaviour isn't exactly comforting. The whole military escalation in Ukraine is driven by Russia, which makes everybody nervous, otherwise I don't think anybody really wants to invade anybody else in the area.

[scrdest]

nato wanting to invade russia is the same case as russia invading georgia - if you're not subservient to us, you're against us

russia wouldn't get away with poland/baltic states because nato

it's that simple

Yeah, because a full-on invasion of Russia would of course turn every Russian against the current establishment with the current media/popular climate in Russia -_-