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[kaijyuu]

Yes, but as new ones are made, old ones break down.

Regardless, I think various subcultures (furries, etc) being given space where they can do their thing without outside harassment is pretty awesome. For every "echo chamber" there's a dozen subcultures who can avoid douchebags raining on their parade.

[Bauglir]

Regardless, I think various subcultures (furries, etc) being given space where they can do their thing without outside harassment is pretty awesome. For every "echo chamber" there's a dozen subcultures who can avoid douchebags raining on their parade.

Definitely a true fact.

[Zangi]

Well, when you think about the concept of selfishness... some people get the feel goods from doing 'non-selfish' things.  Acts of 'kindness' and the likes are all products of being selfishness too.  People act on their self-interests.

Is it not your own desire to see X person happy when you do acts of 'non-selfish' to make it happen?
Is it not your own desire to 'make a difference' for others when you deliberately go out of your way to do something to get that result?
Or are you saying people can truly be some sort of twisted 'paragon of virtue', where they only do those things cause it is the 'right thing to do'?  Society and culture has changed over the centuries, what was right and what is right... it will continue to change with the passing of time and the acts of humanity, for better or worse.

Can you honestly say you have never given without wanting anything in return? Not even a thanks? Because selflessness is a virtue that is in no ways twisted. There is no better way to let ignorance thrive than to irk away from the right choices because they are the difficult choices.

The feeling of self-satisfaction is as much a selfish motivator.  As is getting a desired reaction that does not come in the form of praise or thanks.
Praise and thanks is not a stringent requirement to do acts of 'non-selfish', though it is a positive reinforcement...

A person who is 'selfless' is someone who gets their kicks doing selfless stuff, knowing that they will get outside positive feedback, if not from some or even the majority of their acts...   They'll at least have an internal positive feedback for what they do. 

In short and I repeat, kindness is a product of a human's selfishness.  They get something out of it, even if it is not tangible or quantitative.  It is what motivates people to be kind and 'good' as well as many other things that could be considered 'evil' or just plain normal.

EDIT: Selfishness is not so bad... it is what motivates people... to great acts of kindness.

Selfishness is the motivation as the whip is to the slave. Freedom from it is what leads to kindness.

Poetic.

Where would humanity be without greed?

No capitalism or communism, only a commonwealth.

There would also be no dreams and goals to be better, to do better.  Without selfish desires to motivate the common human, what need would there be for innovation or change?  Satisfied with the life allotted them?

Perhaps a commonwealth of nomads who only do enough to survive and lounge around with whatever free time they have.  Our primitive brethren probably know all about it.

[Frumple]

... you don't need greed to want to improve something. It is allowable to improve for the sake of improving instead of the betterment of self that may or may not come from it. There can be purpose in the act even if there is not self-improvement in it. Gods know I've helped people and done various so-called selfless deeds despite not enjoying it, feeling worse afterwards, and getting not just no benefit but active detriment therefrom. It is not difficult to internalize as an axiom that if a thing can be bettered by an action, that is the right act to do, if able. Kant can blow me.

But yeah. If you're breaking down selfishness and describing it as the fundamental motivating point for all things, it is inherently amoral and frankly almost pointless to acknowledge and effectively nonexistent. If a thing is all things, it might as well be no thing, because it cannot be differentiated.

[Naryar]

I'm fine with trolling, as long as it is properly done. Trolling is an art, after all, and it provides forums with a certain post control. Trolling also provides new ideas and generally conflict, which is necessary to a forum. (Too much of it, of course, does kill the forum, that's why admins must put limits on it)

What I am not fine with is people throwing insults at each other stupidly, because it brings nothing but resent and hate and solves nothing.
 
also trolling should be only done for fun between two people who accept it, or when someone is obviously acting out of what is commonly accepted as proper behavior in the community. Examples of out of "proper behavior" being unwarranted self-importance, posting stupid shit (this is of course relative), being arrogant when you have no reason to be so, being needlessly agressive, etc...

[Loud Whispers]

The feeling of self-satisfaction is as much a selfish motivator.  As is getting a desired reaction that does not come in the form of praise or thanks.
Praise and thanks is not a stringent requirement to do acts of 'non-selfish', though it is a positive reinforcement...

A person who is 'selfless' is someone who gets their kicks doing selfless stuff, knowing that they will get outside positive feedback, if not from some or even the majority of their acts...   They'll at least have an internal positive feedback for what they do.

There are occasions where showing acts of kindness and selflessness will cause you to receive absolutely negative and hateful feedback. Like helping a untouchables or outcasts of society, selfless actions do exist and you ascribe all good actions to be done in selfish nature. This I would absolutely disagree with.

In short and I repeat, kindness is a product of a human's selfishness.  They get something out of it, even if it is not tangible or quantitative.  It is what motivates people to be kind and 'good' as well as many other things that could be considered 'evil' or just plain normal.

For some reason the concept of human selflessness being the product for a person's capacity to completely disregard consideration for other people makes little sense. By being kind to one another a person shows they have consideration for their fellow persons, that they are selfless.

Without selfish desires to motivate the common human, what need would there be for innovation or change?  Satisfied with the life allotted them?

Greed and innovation has created countless applications for industry and research. But do not confuse it with those pursuing progress, whether it be in research or medicine or humanitarian in nature. Greed actively stagnates progress because progress is costly, it only makes do with what it has available. You see this in modern science where research that could improve the lives of all is never looked into because it does not yield good profit margins.

[cerapa]

In short and I repeat, kindness is a product of a human's selfishness.  They get something out of it, even if it is not tangible or quantitative.  It is what motivates people to be kind and 'good' as well as many other things that could be considered 'evil' or just plain normal.

This definition of selfishness is absolutely pointless. The internal thought processes of anything with a brain works by chemically reinforcing certain behaviour, if you define selfishness as the act of seeking these chemicals, then the only selfless being is one that does not exist.

You are correct of course, but you should be adjusting your definition of selfishness into the one in common usage, or at least keep it in mind when discussing with other people. Otherwise you will just keep talking past people.

[darkrider2]

also trolling should be only done for fun between two people who accept it, or when someone is obviously acting out of what is commonly accepted as proper behavior in the community. Examples of out of "proper behavior" being unwarranted self-importance, posting stupid shit (this is of course relative), being arrogant when you have no reason to be so, being needlessly agressive, etc...

So basically trolling a troll is warranted?

I'm sure there are people who have the aforementioned traits genuinely, as opposed to through trolling, but the two are nearly indistinguishable from text alone.

[Muz]

Some observations:

1. People hate seeing false 'facts'. Someone often makes an entirely stupid claim and someone will counter that with another stupid claim. E.g. "It's scientifically proven that Asian genes are inferior. This is common sense." "No, here's an entirely unreliable blog post that proves that Asians are indeed the master race." "If Asians are the master race, then why are their birth rates so low? Everyone knows that high fertility is the foothold in any empire."

That's part of why political/religious debates go so long. The more people involved, the higher the likelihood of stupid claims.

2. In real life, when people start arguing, they get tired after a while and say sorry. In the internet, especially forums, once they get tired, someone covers for them.

3. Anonymity can be quite powerful. I put up less controversial stuff on my Facebook/LinkedIn, and nobody argues on it. Heck, I do it just to start arguments/discussions. I'm guessing it's because the photo makes them think twice about it, or that they're not willing to argue certain things in front of certain people. FB/LI is also a bitch when it comes to anonymity, argue with a stranger via Facebook, and it literally tells your best friends and spouse. Personally, I don't mind people finding things I've talked about with other internet strangers, but a lot of people seem to show different faces to different people.

4. Some people get into the habit of throwing punches on certain triggers. Like mentioning 'creationism/evolution/Muhammad' will trigger a fight.

5. It takes restraint to prevent a controversial thing from snowballing. Once one person fails to restrain themselves, it lowers the willpower of others as well.

6. Some people eventually get frustrated by either talking with idiots (in their opinion) or being treated like an idiot and resorts to trolling. It's a defense to prevent themselves from being seen as legit idiots. It's a way to reduce the pain of getting an emotional response from a perceived idiot... by actually trying to get an emotional response, they'll enjoy it.