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[Naryar]

Well Girlinhat kinda added something usually not intended for the game to have, in terms of being excessively powerful.

He means spells that last a minute before they go away.

So why do a spell that lasts a shorter amount of time costs more ?

and she*

[Neonivek]

Because think of it this way

A spell could last 24 hours on its own. If you had an item that kept that spell on all the time you essentially have the equivilant of that spell once everyday.

If you have a spell that lasts 1 minute and you had an item that kept that spell on all the time, you essentially have the equivilant of that spell being cast 1440 times in a day.

It is why, for the most part, instant spells tend not to be allowed to be unlimited and if they are, it is a special case by case basis (For example some books in 3.5 allows a unlimited cantrip wand)

[Naryar]

Because think of it this way

A spell could last 24 hours on its own. If you had an item that kept that spell on all the time you essentially have the equivilant of that spell once everyday.

If you have a spell that lasts 1 minute and you had an item that kept that spell on all the time, you essentially have the equivilant of that spell being cast 1440 times in a day.

It is why, for the most part, instant spells tend not to be allowed to be unlimited.

So it's a spell that can be casted every minute. Just what I said.

[Neonivek]

Just explaining why shorter spells cost more.

[Girlinhat]

2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

This is the footnote for making magic items of constant duration.  The cost is (spell level) x (caster level ) x 2,000 x (duration modifier) = base cost.  For these purposes, any spell with "instantaneous" duration, will multiply the cost by 10.

Cure Light Wounds (1) x Caster level (1) x 2,000 x duration (10) = 20,000gp for "you can regenerate wounds every round."
Fireball (3) x Caster Level (5) x 2,000 x Duration (10) = 300,000gp for "You can deal 17.5 average damage to a 20 foot radius every 6 seconds."

And really, with some 500 foot range, and that damage, that's a siege weapon.  I may tweak costs further, like doing a basic 5x multiplier instead of 10x, but anything that causes direct damage gets added costs.  Because the RAW rules don't specify, an item of 30,000gp for endless fireballs can be incredibly OP.

[Neonivek]

Mind you, you would have to fudge the cure light wounds on the basis that the "Ring of Regeneration". Does the same thing except not as well.

And really, with some 500 foot range, and that damage, that's a siege weapon.

With the damage first hitting the damage reduction and then halfed it would probably be used more against soldiers then against walls.

Mind you wood would take about 24 damage from that average. (5 hardness, then double. Doors take quite some time to burn down from a torch. It almost feels intentional to be honest)

Though honestly if I had to inject a spell into a siege weapon. I'd make it Flame Sphere.

[Naryar]

Mind you, you would have to fudge the cure light wounds on the basis that the "Ring of Regeneration". Does the same thing except not as well.

And really, with some 500 foot range, and that damage, that's a siege weapon.

With the damage first hitting the damage reduction and then halfed it would probably be used more against soldiers then against walls.

Mind you wood would take about 24 damage from that average. (5 hardness, then double. Doors take quite some time to burn down from a torch. It almost feels intentional to be honest)

Though honestly if I had to inject a spell into a siege weapon. I'd make it Flame Sphere.

Nonsense. Earthquake is the best siege spell there is.

[Neonivek]

Well if you want a great siege class you want the Druid.

Sure the Druids later spells are as powerful as a wet paper napkin against animated targets and you will pretty much laugh if a Druid threatens to spell you to death.

Yet against inanimate objects the Druid is the god of destruction! If a high level druid threatens your castle and demands money HAND IT OVER! your castle is done for!

[Girlinhat]

With the damage first hitting the damage reduction and then halfed it would probably be used more against soldiers then against walls.

Many siege engines were used against soldiers!

Granted, with magic doing 9-10 damage (or 0-1 depending on how you count damage reduction), stone has about 30 HP/inch.  That's ~3 inches per minute, or about 1/4 inch per minute, depending how you mark damage.  If you lay siege for an hour, that's 15 inches or 15 feet of stone blasted through.

Pay more for a Maximized Fireball, 5th level, and you're doing 30 damage every 6 seconds, after reduction that's either 7 or 22 damage.
Go a step further, level 10 maximized fireball, 60 raw damage.  Every 6 seconds.  It gets hellishly expensive to make such an item, but either way you look at it, that's real power, and that'll drop walls in a matter of minutes, maybe hours for fortress strongholds.  Even still, it'd take less than a day to breach any given wall.

So, in any case, "infinite casting" of instantaneous spells will either be horribly expensive, or just not possible.

[Neonivek]

Sorry yeah you half it first THEN apply the hardness. I mix it up.

Since a wooden door's hardness is 5 and a torch does 1d3 damage. Meaning it does 1 damage to a door when it rolls maximum.

[Girlinhat]

Actually, I don't think magic gets halved.  Ranged/thrown weapons do, but it says nothing on the hobbling of magic damage to items.

[Neonivek]

Actually, I don't think magic gets halved.  Ranged/thrown weapons do, but it says nothing on the hobbling of magic damage to items.

Hardness is the exception to the rule that Damage reduction and other similar abilities have. Hardness works against all "Damage".

Magic doesn't get halfed, Fire gets halfed because it is on Stone (and stone has no energy weakness). Animated Objects do not get this however.

Depending on the material however it can deal full damage instead (subject to hardness)

[Naryar]

Energy does half damage to objects before applying damage reduction. It's up to DM on how different energy types damage certain objects though.

So yeah, the best is still Str checks or good old fashioned melee damage.

[Girlinhat]

Aha, energy damage... yes, that makes a bit of sense then.

[Cthulhu]

Teleport circle is the strongest siege spell.  Knocking the walls down just means you have to rebuild them later.