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Total Members Voted: 107

[smjjames]

Afghanistan is still a useless war, as the attackers were from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, not the Taliban.

Let me see.

Pakistan - Nukes, general anger towards India, tense relations already.
Saudi Arabia - Muslim holy cities.  'nuff said.

Yeah, Afghanistan may not have been where they were from, but it was probably the only 'safe' option.

So, basically, you just needed to invade a country and Afghanistan was the only one available?

MAYBE, I don't know, you'd have to ask Bush and his adminstration.

[mainiac]

There was no such thing as an afghan government at that time. It was the forces friendly to Osama's cohorts. Most of them from.. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, because the USSR had destabilized Afghanistan and made it into a hub for terror.

Oh well that's cool then.  We went into the totally not ruled by Afgani government zone and killed a bunch of totally not Afgani government people there who had just organized a major attack and would continue to do so.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Wasn't he in Tora Bora?

Lots of their propaganda had him fighting in most of the important battles. Which we know wouldn't be the case.

There was no such thing as an afghan government at that time. It was the forces friendly to Osama's cohorts. Most of them from.. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, because the USSR had destabilized Afghanistan and made it into a hub for terror.

Oh well that's cool then.  We went into the totally not ruled by Afgani government zone and killed a bunch of totally not Afgani government people there who had just organized a major attack and would continue to do so.

Shocking to know that invading a country for tenuous reasons might sound ridiculous even with you attempting to misrepresent the reality of the mobile terrorist forces that weren't the Taliban facilitating the 9/11 attacks. If you haven't noticed the dangerous Jihadi groups moved onto greener pastures while the taliban still plays with themselves in the desert.

[smjjames]

Wasn't he in Tora Bora?

Maybe MH370 is in Tora Bora, what are you getting at?

Also, slow down ppl, lol

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

So, basically, you just needed to invade a country and Afghanistan was the only one available?

Considering that it would have been even worse for him if he didn't, and Afghanistan was believed to hold the ringleader and had quite a few terrorists there, yep.

[mainiac]

Shocking to know that invading a country for tenuous reasons might sound ridiculous even with you attempting to misrepresent the reality of the mobile terrorist forces that weren't the Taliban facilitating the 9/11 attacks. If you haven't noticed the dangerous Jihadi groups moved onto greener pastures while the taliban still plays with themselves in the desert.

Which doesn't really change the part that it's a bad idea to let them keep running the show in Afganistan.

We are back to the thing where something must be shown to solve all things everywhere or it's a bad idea.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

No. It was done under false pretense. The lie was 'they helped Osama attack us so we should take out the Taliban and occupy them for an indeterminate amount of time because we need to feel better'. It's not a bad thing to remove a jihadi group that hardly had support in the country they terrorized. But that wasn't the argument presented to the public and you know it.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

No. It was done under false pretense. The lie was 'they helped Osama attack us so we should take out the Taliban and occupy them for an indeterminate amount of time because we need to feel better'. It's not a bad thing to remove a jihadi group that hardly had support in the country they terrorized. But that wasn't the argument presented to the public and you know it.

May have been done under false pretenses, but the 'occupy for indeterminate amount of time' is false.  As I said earlier, the US military has the precinct in place that they have to fix the country up and have it stable before they leave, and right now, their government doesn't give off the air of stability.  Also, the military was near entirely out, before a new wave of activity by terrorists made them send more people in, as the government didn't have a good grasp on the situation, and the precinct had to be honored. 

[mainiac]

No. It was done under false pretense. The lie was 'they helped Osama attack us so we should take out the Taliban and occupy them for an indeterminate amount of time because we need to feel better'. It's not a bad thing to remove a jihadi group that hardly had support in the country they terrorized. But that wasn't the argument presented to the public and you know it.

I don't know what country you were living in back in 2001.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

So the crux of the push on the war in Afghanistan wasn't to punish the Taliban for harboring OBL and other terrorists with tagged on state building reasoning? Even though the Taliban offered OBL up on a silver platter, to head off any hostilities?

[mainiac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Yes. The war in Afghanistan was sold on false pretense as well as the Iraq war. This statement has no assignment of quality on the invasion, so you can pretend I think it's a good thing we invaded a random country to reprise a mobile terror group and continue on your merry way.

The US invading Afghanistan to punish the Taliban for 'supporting' (not rooting out) OBL cohorts is exactly what the nu-Al Qaeda wanted. It's what OBL wanted. We've been bogged down state building in Afghanistan and Iraq, creating more martyrs and giving more reason to hate the US imperialists in the middle east. It got a bit fudged when we took our tunnel vision off Afghanistan for five seconds and saw his royal compound in Pakistan, but his leadership wasn't even needed anymore at that point. The branches were formed and set loose. Now the dangerous-to-established-governments terror groups aren't in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. They've moved west and to the magreb while the world and especially the US is fixated on previous hotspots.

[mainiac]

I dont recognize the validity dichotomy you have drawn and I dont recognize the soundness of the argument used by OBL.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Alrighty then lol, thanks for your input mate

[mainiac]

We agree in principle to be governed by logic.  Victory for the Vulcan race.