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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

So my state governor was the wrong choice.  Lt. Governor's first contact in about 5 years (not for lack of trying, mind you) is the Ferguson briefing that consisted of a couple intervals of contact, separated by about 5 minutes, that lasted about a minute long.

Also, I find it interesting to note that no one has brought up how the autopsy found that the shot through the eye came from the front, and the shots to the arms are in a position that would have been charging, as well as there being a few witnesses that stated the officer was charged.

Can't link anything, since I gained this information from a radio interview made with the Lt. Governor with a local station.

[GavJ]

Charging or holding arms in the air in surrender both imply similar wound angles, making that totally useless IMO. Medical examiner explicitly mentioned ambiguity.

And yes some witnesses report charging, some report staggering, some report not moving at all.

What I personally want, as well as I believe most of the protesters, is merely a FAIR TRIAL. Where all these things would be aired out. Not summary action on opinions. The chants are not "What do we want? Hang Wilson!"  The chants are "What do we want? Justice!"

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

What I personally want, as well as I believe most of the protesters, is merely a FAIR TRIAL. Where all these things would be aired out. Not summary action on opinions. The chants are not "What do we want? Hang Wilson!"  The chants are "What do we want? Justice!"

This I completely agree with.

Also, here's the show.  Current interview is with the family's lawyer: http://player.liquidcompass.net/KFTKFM

[GlyphGryph]

Also, I find it interesting to note that no one has brought up how the autopsy found that the shot through the eye came from the front, and the shots to the arms are in a position that would have been charging, as well as there being a few witnesses that stated the officer was charged.

We've known this (shot from the front) would be the case from day 1 though, because that is what all of the witnesses agreed on. Also, the wounds do *not* indicate he was charging, they only indicate his arms were up and away from his body, and that for at least the last shot his body was tilted forward (which considering he fell forward doesn't mean much). If he was charging, he would have had to have been holding his arms REALLY strangely to get injuries like that. It's not impossible, but it doesn't seem likely since we have three witnesses saying from day one he was in a different position that matches the injuries he sustained just as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

Forensic pathologist Shawn Parcells, who assisted former New York City chief medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden during the private autopsy, said a bullet grazed Brown's right arm. He said the wound indicates Brown may have had his back to the shooter, or he could have been facing the shooter with his hands above his head or in a defensive position across his chest or face.

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

And yes some witnesses report charging, some report staggering, some report not moving at all.

Do you have any source on any of the witnesses reporting charging or staggering? There were three witnesses to my knowledge, and all of their accounts agreed on the same sequence of events, and none of them mentioned anything like Brown even coming close to charging the cop.

Wound pattern:


(Second image has had arm rotated to demonstrate)

The two wounds on the undersides of his arms would have been difficult to get in a charge. Possible, but again, unlikely.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

He shot him through the top of the head and the eye? Holy overkill, Batman!

It almost makes it seem like he shot him again after he was dead.

[GlyphGryph]

Also, he would have had to charge the police officer in an extremely strange way to get that head wound - head tucked down at a distance of greater than 30 feet isn't generally how a person rushes someone.

One of the bullets shattered Mr. Brown’s right eye, traveled through his face, exited his jaw and re-entered his collarbone.

For the eye shot. Must had had his head tucked in, so managed to get three wounds from the one bullet.

[GavJ]

Do you have any source on any of the witnesses reporting charging or staggering?

No, you probably know more than I do if you know specific numbers of witnesses, etc. I have heard upwards of a dozen, though, being cited, but no hard facts about anything.

He shot him through the top of the head and the eye? Holy overkill, Batman!

It almost makes it seem like he shot him again after he was dead.

This in and of itself is not weird or inappropriate. Various organizations train you to "double tap" shots off, in rapid pairs, rather than firing each shot and checking the results. IF (massive if, obviously) it was justifiable self defense, then being shot in the head twice is not evidence against that for government firearms training.

[Sirus]

30 feet isn't all that far away. He could have been trying to bullrush the police, like a football player might.

Pure speculation, of course. If eyewitness reports are conflicting and the actual autopsy can't yet determine the exact circumstances, speculation is kinda all there is.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Also, he would have had to charge the police officer in an extremely strange way to get that head wound - head tucked down at a distance of greater than 30 feet isn't generally how a person rushes someone.

Of course, there's no telling what his reaction to being shot would have been without some conclusive evidence. Not the most rational actor encouraging situation.

This in and of itself is not weird or inappropriate. Various organizations train you to "double tap" shots off, in rapid pairs, rather than firing each shot and checking the results. IF (massive if, obviously) it was justifiable self defense, then being shot in the head twice is not evidence against that for government firearms training.

It might be if he were to have, say, shot him in the confrontation, then shot him in the head once he was down and out to ensure he was definitely dead. Of course, that's speculation, but those are some weird bullet trajectories.

[GlyphGryph]

Do you have any source on any of the witnesses reporting charging or staggering?

No, you probably know more than I do if you know specific numbers of witnesses, etc. I have heard upwards of a dozen, though, being cited, but no hard facts about anything.

The only person to allege dozens (that I know of) was a report on maternity leave who has since had that leave made a bit more permanent since she apparently did so based on a rumor that supposedly came from "a friend of a friend of the police officer".

The police didn't actually try to interview any of the witnesses (Dorian Johnson, Tiffany Mitchell, and Piaget Crenshaw) until three days into the protests when Brown's friend got a lawyer to push them to do so, but one of them actually live-tweeted an account as it was happening and the other two went public pretty quickly.


They all agreed with the same sequence of events: Brown next to police SUV, Wilson grabs him from Inside, Brown runs, at least one shot fired, Brown turns around and puts his hand up, around six additional shots fired.

Pure speculation, of course. If eyewitness reports are conflicting and the actual autopsy can't yet determine the exact circumstances, speculation is kinda all there is.

There's no conflict between them. Wilson himself never filled out a police report or anything so we don't even have his yet, but I imagine that one at least would disagree, for obvious reasons.

In other news

At approximately 12:30 AM on August 20, St. Louis County Police arrested Max Suchan, a Legal Observer® with the National Lawyers Guild (NLG). Suchan, a Chicago law student, traveled to Ferguson to document police misconduct and help protect community residents' First Amendment rights in the wake of Michael Brown's murder.

Prior to Suchan's arrest, the police repeatedly charged the crowd on Florrisant Ave., appearing to target unarmed black youth for arrest. The police pushed the protesters down the street and gave dispersal orders without clear directions for how people should leave. Suchan observed several police in riot gear pointing their guns at an African-American man, forcing him roughly to the ground before placing him under arrest. While attempting to ask the arrestee for his name so he could be tracked in jail (a standard Legal Observer® procedure), Suchan was also forced to the ground and arrested. He was booked at the St. Louis County Justice Center in Clayton and released several hours later. Suchan was released with a pending application of warrant (“PAW”), meaning that the County has 30 days to press charges if they so choose.

Following his arrest, Suchan stated: “I am shocked by the extreme level of violence police exhibited towards residents in their own community, as well as Legal Observers® and members of the press. I observed numerous arrests where people seemed to be singled out by police in a “snatch and grab” fashion, merely because of the color of their skin. I observed several residents arrested while trying to negotiate an exit route with police. Several of my co-arrestees were bleeding and had bumps and cuts on their faces from being thrown to the ground. The police are terrorizing Ferguson and those who support the struggle for police accountability and an end to racial inequality.”

For the last five days, the NLG has had a team of Legal Observers® on the ground in Ferguson to monitor police activity and offer legal support to protesters. The NLG has been documenting rampant police abuse at demonstrations, working with local organizations on coordinating bail and providing other legal support, and organizing criminal defense attorneys to represent arrestees. The Guild has extensive experience doing mass defense work for movements for social and political change, including Occupy Wall Street.

Even during his hours-long detention from inside the police van, Suchan continued doing mass defense work, documenting the cases of co-arrestees and monitoring police activity. He will be back on the streets as Legal Observer® tomorrow.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

It might be if he were to have, say, shot him in the confrontation, then shot him in the head once he was down and out to ensure he was definitely dead. Of course, that's speculation, but those are some weird bullet trajectories.

He was firing with his non-dominant hand and had a fairly wounded eye, though.

[GlyphGryph]

He was firing with his non-dominant hand and had a fairly wounded eye, though.

There's no evidence for either of these, yet.

There was a bunch of news reports that ran a story about an orbital fracture (with pictures!) but it turned out the pictures were taken from the Iowa University archives and had no relation to the case, and there's been no actual evidence an injury occurred.

And that doesn't really have any impact on the firing angles.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My alternate, non- (well, less-)Fuck-The-Police hypothesis is that the vertical shots hit him as he was falling down from the horizontal shots. The horizontal shots wouldn't have had to have killed him for this either, untrained people have a proven psychological compulsion to fall when shot even if they can keep going, because virtually all media suggests that's what's "supposed" to happen when you are shot.

[GlyphGryph]

I should add that ABC is running with the facial injury angle:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-shooting-grand-jury-decide-october-charge-cop/story?id=25047905

But it's from an "anonymous source", provides no evidence, and is basically a rehash of the already bogus and clearly fabricated story that's been going around the rumour circuit.

It comes from

A source close to Wilson" who "told ABC News that during the struggle at the patrol car, Wilson suffered “a serious facial injury. [...] The injury was not described

And I'd put money down it is probably the same "friend of the officer" that's been telling a bunch of the other stories that have since been debunked.

If Wilson had actually been injured, I can't imagine why the police would be sitting on it.

The police are now saying he was injured, admittedly (no details how, what, or how badly), but their story has changed every day, sometimes as often as three times a day, so I wouldn't put much weight on the chief's statements unless he can provide evidence (which they should have of an injury if they followed policy).

They managed to say he did, definitely did not, and did not and THEN did know about the earlier robbery all in the same day (and in statements by the same person, a week into this), and they've only brought up the charging and injury possibilities recently so it doesn't seem reliable considering the chief has a well documented history of lying to protect his officers.

In other news
The Powell shooting in St. Louis proper yesterday has full video.
WARNING: THIS VIDEO DEPICTS GRAPHIC VIOLENCE
DO NOT FOLLOW THIS LINK IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE A MAN GETTING KILLED BY THE POLICE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU
THIS VIDEO DEPICTS GRAPHIC VIOLENCE.

[SalmonGod]

It almost makes it seem like he shot him again after he was dead.

One of the witness accounts I read described that the officer fired multiple bullets, and then walked up and shot him once in the head while standing over him, as he lay on the ground.