Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[GlyphGryph]

Police should be required to wear a suitably effective and small camera, possibly on a hat. It seems useful in that it might prevent a riot. After all they've gotten all those homeland security dollars for 'useful' things like armored personnel carriers for a village with a population of 50 people.

The Ferguson police do have the cameras, and dash cameras, already purchased and required from what I hear, they just haven't bothered to get around to use any of them. Who's gonna make 'em, right?

[Descan]

And if the evidence shows something you don't like, you just "lose it." Of course, that's illegal, and is something that is punished often enough to make it de facto illegal as well. Same here, it's evidence, and thus protected.

Obvious cameras (not hidden) are good for police because not only does it lessen police brutality, it also lessens brutality AGAINST the police. You're not going to punch/shoot the cop if your face is getting recorded, especially if it uploads to the cloud (i.e. you can't just destroy the copy on the cop) Or at least, most people won't, and the ones who do... get their face recorded so they can find them again.

And it's no longer a case of he-said/she-said in the courts, sometimes the cops are lying and it'll exonerate the victim, but sometimes the layman is the liar and a good cop will have evidence to clear his name. (Even if the court case is thrown out, it'll still sting his reputation if people think "What if he really did beat that kid...? fer ex.. A camera helps in that regard.)

There are actual numbers and everything! Percentage points! Datas! I'm just too lazy to look 'em up :v

[DJ]

Something something 4th Amendment.

[Descan]

I'm sure it could be argued, but... It's already been done? Like, where do you think the numbers come from? Some cities and such already outfit their police with the cameras.

Plus, in those cities iirc, anyone can request the video. I'm not sure if it's anyone at all or only the people being charged.

[smirk]

Apparently a "non-peaceful protest" is defined as one that refuses to disperse on being threatened by armed police tactical units.

I guess that makes MLK a non-peaceful protestor in today's day and age. Is this the official stance of police in Ferguson or your own conclusion?

Hah, just my own cynicism. The last dozen or so peaceful protestors outside the FPD last night were threatened away by four armored trucks and many, many armed and armored policemen. The remaining five were arrested. (read back about a page on this twitter).

Things that happened while I was asleep:

http://rt.com/usa/180360-police-louis-policing-ferguson/ The governor is removing St. Louis PD from the picture. No word yet on who WILL be taking over, whether state police or FBI.

http://jezebel.com/anonymous-doxxes-the-cop-who-killed-mike-brown-1621535186 Anonymous is doxxing the officer they claim is responsible for Mike Brown's death. No independent confirmation yet so there's no telling if they're right or not. Makes me uncomfortable: I'm all for the officer's name being released, but there's too much potential here for error. They could easily be screwing some random guy over. (Anon's twitter is here, if you don't mind potentially being flagged as a turrist)


Daytime responsibilities call. I'll check back when I can.

[Frumple]

Something something 4th Amendment.

Given how much that's been more or less shat on over the last decade or two, I'd be pretty happy if it were being arguably violated in the favor of the public, for once.

Beyond that, I think (assuming my memory hasn't failed me, or it's local instead of national) the current interpretation is recording of that sort is fine so long as it's in person -- no remote cameras, but carried/attached stuff is acceptable. Least that was part of the argument re: traffic light cameras, in my area.

Regardless, having cop cams running 24/7 and just making anything that violates the 4th inadmissible in court (criminally punishable if released to the public despite that, etc., etc.) would likely be some kind of acceptable compromise.

[SalmonGod]

Apparently a "non-peaceful protest" is defined as one that refuses to disperse on being threatened by armed police tactical units.

I guess that makes MLK a non-peaceful protestor in today's day and age. Is this the official stance of police in Ferguson or your own conclusion? If that is ever the official opinion of law enforcement either locally or nationally, how unfortunate for us all that the wrong people were put in positions of sufficient power to make such decisions. Surely looting can be distinguished from protest and the reporters that cover it.

Looking for a source on this now, but I have to leave soon so I might not find one in time. 

From what I've read as background to many cases of police horribly maiming or killing someone they shouldn't have, the Use of Force Continuum is frequently used as justification.  That protocol (which varies in details by location/department but the basic principle is universal) begins to take effect when anybody, no matter if they're a suspect in a crime or just a random person, disobeys an order of any kind.  According to this policy, disobeying an order in any fashion is classified as an act of violence, and is to be responded to with force.  I believe that if the officer doesn't respond with force, they're actually disobeying their own protocol.  Once you've entered into the use of force, you progress through several steps on the continuum.  It generally goes from verbal command to empty hand techniques to "less-lethal" weapons to deadly force.  Whenever one technique doesn't work, they're supposed to move on to the next one.  This is why there are so many cases out there of people being injured or killed for being physically unable to hear or comply with an officer's commands (because of being deaf, having a seizure, etc).

Related:  A guy was shot in Salt Lake City on Monday, because he was wearing headphones and unable to hear police commands.  It's not at all exaggeration that this stuff happens almost every day.  Only a minority of such incidents turn into situations like Ferguson, or go beyond local media attention.  I saw another video not too long ago of several officers breaking a guy's leg, and then beating him for like 10 minutes for disobeying their orders to stand up.

[GavJ]

And if the hat cams picked up stuff they didn't like, the cameras would have 'stopped working' or 'fallen off' no doubt.

Which is why in my version of the camera plan posted on a previous page, I said that if video cannot be produced, then A) they get a fine, and B) the testimony of the person who was supposed to be taking the video is inadmissible for the events that should have been recorded.

[DJ]

But you can only violate the Constitution when it suits the government, not when it can be used against it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

For the record, as I recall there's already a legal standard in a few places that if evidence vanishes, the jury is instructed to assume malicious intent on the part of the evidence holder.

[Sergarr]

Jury can stop police now?

[SalmonGod]

Anonymous claims to have identified the man who shot Michael Brown.

St Louis police chief was one of many U.S. LEO officials chosen for a program where they visited Israel to be trained by the IDF in anti-terror tactics.
Another Link about this program from 2011

This is the first I've heard about the IDF cross-training program.  It is terrifying.

[Loud Whispers]

London police to begin wearing cameras to regain public trust. Murricapol thread, take note.

St Louis police chief was one of many U.S. LEO officials chosen for a program where they visited Israel to be trained by the IDF in anti-terror tactics.
Another Link about this program from 2011
This is the first I've heard about the IDF cross-training program.  It is terrifying.

I must say of all of Israel's influences on America this was not one I saw coming.

[smirk]

St Louis police chief was one of many U.S. LEO officials chosen for a program where they visited Israel to be trained by the IDF in anti-terror tactics.
Another Link about this program from 2011
This is the first I've heard about the IDF cross-training program.  It is terrifying.

I must say of all of Israel's influences on America this was not one I saw coming.

Interestingly enough, Palestinians in Gaza are not only tweeting support for Ferguson residents but also giving advice on how to deal with tear gas:
https://twitter.com/tanayj/status/499786815469936641/photo/1

That's the other thing about social media - everything is international.

[Mr. Strange]

St Louis police chief was one of many U.S. LEO officials chosen for a program where they visited Israel to be trained by the IDF in anti-terror tactics.
Another Link about this program from 2011
This is the first I've heard about the IDF cross-training program.  It is terrifying.

I must say of all of Israel's influences on America this was not one I saw coming.

Interestingly enough, Palestinians in Gaza are not only tweeting support for Ferguson residents but also giving advice on how to deal with tear gas:
https://twitter.com/tanayj/status/499786815469936641/photo/1

That's the other thing about social media - everything is international.

Faith in humanity: +1