Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


Pages: 1 ... 488 489 [490] 491 492 ... 667

Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 832118 times)

Mictlantecuhtli

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinning God of Death
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7335 on: June 24, 2014, 12:19:02 pm »

You mean the enforced shutdowns of electricity to tell people 'our current electrical system is bad and we need a privatized electrical system'? On the hottest day of the year? That they had plenty of time to prepare for?

Hint: That wasn't the first time Detroit has been hot as fuck. It's the first time it's been that hot under the local dictator who has a vested interest in switching all public services to corporations that are friends of the governor's cabal..

Also, do you really think *now* is when the Detroit power grid would be overwhelmed by 'too many people using electricity'? When their population is at similar levels to that of the 1920's? That would be one of the most rapidly decaying power systems in the entire world to fall below capacity for their current population despite a swan-dive of population/manufacturing/business power consumption..
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 12:29:37 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
Logged
I am surrounded by flesh and bone, I am a temple of living. Maybe I'll maybe my life away.

Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
Card-carrying Liberaltarian

toto

  • Guest
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7336 on: June 24, 2014, 01:13:43 pm »

(removed)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 02:12:21 pm by Toady One »
Logged

Mictlantecuhtli

  • Bay Watcher
  • Grinning God of Death
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7337 on: June 24, 2014, 01:16:27 pm »

That's a spambot, and an eerily specific kind. Does it spider the internet for discussions about the electoral college or something?
Logged
I am surrounded by flesh and bone, I am a temple of living. Maybe I'll maybe my life away.

Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
Card-carrying Liberaltarian

Mephansteras

  • Bay Watcher
  • Forger of Civilizations
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7338 on: June 24, 2014, 01:49:40 pm »

Well, beats Kitchenbots, I guess.
Logged
Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
Come play Mafia with us!
"Let us maintain our chill composure." - Toady One

LordSlowpoke

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7339 on: June 24, 2014, 01:59:15 pm »

i personally would not support a thing that has spambots working to "help" it but yeah
Logged

stabbymcstabstab

  • Bay Watcher
  • OW SNAP!
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7340 on: June 24, 2014, 02:15:01 pm »

It's creepy I've never seen a useful spambot before. but if they just make it so the college vote actually represent the popular vote instead of "runner A has two more votes in New York! He get every single vote from the College!"
Logged
Long Live Arst- United Forenia!
"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

GavJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7341 on: June 24, 2014, 03:57:33 pm »

Mine:
Take a list of every member of the state (roughly)

Randomly assign them to districts.

Done. :V
1) You need to actually have physical places to vote, and different districts need different ballots, etc. This would be an absolute logistical nightmare.
2) This undermines the entire purpose of local representation. Why would you bother at all to have districts if you're doing it like this? You may as well just have everybody in the state vote for their top favorite 20 representatives or however many the state has. (which is not as good as local representation, but better than having arbitrary scrambled logistics for no reason).
Logged
Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7342 on: June 24, 2014, 04:46:13 pm »

If FPTP is what prevent the US from having a true multi-party system, how come the UK got more than 2 parties?
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

GlyphGryph

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7343 on: June 24, 2014, 04:56:43 pm »

Mine:
Take a list of every member of the state (roughly)

Randomly assign them to districts.

Done. :V
1) You need to actually have physical places to vote, and different districts need different ballots, etc. This would be an absolute logistical nightmare.
2) This undermines the entire purpose of local representation. Why would you bother at all to have districts if you're doing it like this? You may as well just have everybody in the state vote for their top favorite 20 representatives or however many the state has. (which is not as good as local representation, but better than having arbitrary scrambled logistics for no reason).

Mail your votes in, duh. Some states already do it thhat way even.

Also, your way would make things messy and weird. Theres value in reps representing a certain number of people directly as their, specific, constituents. Theres less geopgraphic favoritism possible, sure, for obvious reasons, but it still results in significantly more "local" representation.
Logged

GavJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7344 on: June 24, 2014, 04:57:56 pm »

If FPTP is what prevent the US from having a true multi-party system, how come the UK got more than 2 parties?
Because FPTP tends to result in a two party system given enough time.

It's not like implementing one suddenly, magically makes third parties poof out of existence. Also, even in an already two party system, there would be expected transitions where parties "flip" or bifurcate into new identities relatively reapidly, which might allow ingress by third parties more than usual for a bit. This has happened several times in U.S. history. The FPTP is only supposed to be a loose influence pushing you gently toward 2 parties, not ironclad law.

Diagram nicely showing a 2 party trend, but by no means law, over a very short period of time:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
Theres value in reps representing a certain number of people directly as their, specific, constituents.
Can you be more specific as to what that value might be, if they aren't in the same location? Traditionally, the value comes from things like "There's a steel plant in my district, I'm gonna look out for steel workers" etc. So local communities get their voices heard. But that falls apart if every rep has 35 steelworkers split up from the same plant in random scatter, as they become a tiny minority in every district, and get ignored completely. Only STATE-scale communities get attention from each representative, so you might as well just have everybody vote for all state representatives.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 05:03:21 pm by GavJ »
Logged
Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7345 on: June 24, 2014, 07:44:27 pm »

I'd argue that you would see a far more monolithic 2-party system if you looked at the same length period in the latter 20th century. Over time, the capacity for third parties to emerge and have any effectiveness has diminished as the two major parties have become entrenched.
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7346 on: June 24, 2014, 08:03:19 pm »

The UK/GB/English parliament has been operating under a FPTP system for hundreds of years, though.  It's not a recent change.

I think the real factor that locks the US into two parties is the all-or-nothing nature of a presidential election (and the fact that the president has a very important role, unlike in many other countries).  It's gonna be very difficult for a third party candidate to achieve anything except split the vote of one of the other two parties.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 08:08:16 pm by Leafsnail »
Logged

GreatJustice

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☭The adventure continues (refresh)☭
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7347 on: June 24, 2014, 08:53:12 pm »

Another factor is the fact that the Republicans and Democrats, besides having perceived legitimacy from having been around so long, also have vast campaign budgets to fund their campaigns. When Ross Perot ran, he very nearly won the election (until he stupidly abandoned his campaign and then came back again later) as he was able to match the Democrats and Republicans in terms of money. So the moral of the story is that a third party candidate can do just fine under FTTP so long as they are billionaires willing to devote lots of resources and their own name to the campaign.
Logged
The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

Professional Bridge Toll Collector?

FearfulJesuit

  • Bay Watcher
  • True neoliberalism has never been tried
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7348 on: June 24, 2014, 08:59:15 pm »

The UK/GB/English parliament has been operating under a FPTP system for hundreds of years, though.  It's not a recent change.

I think the real factor that locks the US into two parties is the all-or-nothing nature of a presidential election (and the fact that the president has a very important role, unlike in many other countries).  It's gonna be very difficult for a third party candidate to achieve anything except split the vote of one of the other two parties.

Exactly. The only thing that keeps (say) the Tea Party together with the establishment GOP is that a split guarantees a Democratic victory for the White House. The executive of parliamentary systems is just the top dog in its legislature, so parties can split and get their guy in anyways with the right coalition.
Logged


@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: John Galt's Freedom Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #7349 on: June 24, 2014, 09:02:38 pm »

The UK very nearly is a two-party system, to be honest. Conservative and Labour are pretty predominant (and if my history serves me, replace a similar arrangement by the Tories and Liberals in the past), and the Liberal Democrats just seem to be dying more and more all the time. The other parties are still barely around even though they can win a few seats*.

*Applies only to UK national Parliament.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.
Pages: 1 ... 488 489 [490] 491 492 ... 667