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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[da_nang]

The obvious way is to give interpretations of laws less leniency but this would of course have other consequences.

Give a man a law and he can interpret it in a thousand ways.

[GlyphGryph]

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-investment-managers-view-2013-11

The answer is to simplify the law, not pile more on top of it. They get where they are by using the rules in a way which hardly anyone could possibly understand. Because the laws are so huge and intricate as to be draconic and arcane. Even law experts can only be expected to know certain parts of it.

This isn't always true - "simple" laws are actually incredibly easy to abuse, often enough, and (in a functioning system) they will often get quite complex by neccessity to cut down on and eliminate said abuses, and respond more appropriately to unexpected circumstances.

The problem, of course, is that while that is needed to make a good a law, it isn't always the primary or even a major cause of complexity in our legal system, where the complexity is intended to introduce ways to abuse the law to benefit specific groups and individuals.

[kaijyuu]

Tax law is a good example of overly convoluted laws to benefit specific groups in power. That's not (entirely) the case everywhere, though.

Legalese is a tool, one able to be used for good and for evil.

[Lagslayer]

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-investment-managers-view-2013-11

The answer is to simplify the law, not pile more on top of it. They get where they are by using the rules in a way which hardly anyone could possibly understand. Because the laws are so huge and intricate as to be draconic and arcane. Even law experts can only be expected to know certain parts of it.

This isn't always true - "simple" laws are actually incredibly easy to abuse, often enough, and (in a functioning system) they will often get quite complex by neccessity to cut down on and eliminate said abuses, and respond more appropriately to unexpected circumstances.

The problem, of course, is that while that is needed to make a good a law, it isn't always the primary or even a major cause of complexity in our legal system, where the complexity is intended to introduce ways to abuse the law to benefit specific groups and individuals.

Abuse is rampant anyways. That's why they have those teams of lawyers.

Tax law is a good example of overly convoluted laws to benefit specific groups in power. That's not (entirely) the case everywhere, though.

Legalese is a tool, one able to be used for good and for evil.

This is true, however, it is also true that those with lots of money and power have the most access to legalese.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To combat these problems, more discretionary power can be given to the judiciary. There's the possibility of corrupt or unpopular judges, but these are more easily spotted with fewer regulations in the way.

[FearfulJesuit]

Three hundred pages of politics! Congratulations.

[GlyphGryph]

Local politics!

"The meeting was closed to the public under a section of the Open Meetings Act pertaining to pending litigation. There is no pending litigation, but officials said the administrative appeal could evolve into a Superior Court suit, so the private meeting was justified."

Using the Open Meeting act to justify closing the meeting because of pending litigation that isn't pending. Politics!

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Local politics!

"The meeting was closed to the public under a section of the Open Meetings Act pertaining to pending litigation. There is no pending litigation, but officials said the administrative appeal could evolve into a Superior Court suit, so the private meeting was justified."

Using the Open Meeting act to justify closing the meeting because of pending litigation that isn't pending. Politics!

"Open Meetings Act suit against local council appealed to Superior Court, irony advocates deeply amused."

[Hotfire90]

.

[Lagslayer]

On the 5th November the Million Mask March happened and the Mainstream Media didn't report this event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2vG3hQ_jCQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uoHl_GoIgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnWW4u_Y5fk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6BVU2Ogj5k
In response to the lack of coverage of this event by the Mainstream Media there will be a March against the Mainstream Media on the 16th November.
https://www.facebook.com/Awakenedcitizen89/posts/577154205684303
Also there is TPP which is basically worse than SOPA and PIPA.
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGLd5oeaCbU

I just can't take people seriously when they wear those masks.

[Dutchling]

Screw the whole idea behind it, if you cannot be taken seriously, there's no point in the idea.

Probably why the Nazis in Britain did such a bad job pre-WW2. Everyone laughed at their uniforms...

But Nazis have the sexiest uniforms o.O

[Loud Whispers]

Screw the whole idea behind it, if you cannot be taken seriously, there's no point in the idea.

Probably why the Nazis in Britain did such a bad job pre-WW2. Everyone laughed at their uniforms...

But Nazis have the sexiest uniforms o.O

Not pre-WWII.
Before

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[mainiac]

Tax law is a good example of overly convoluted laws to benefit specific groups in power.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/expenditures/largest.cfm

Two of the three largest deductions in the US tax code are the home mortgage deduction and the health benefits deduction.  Both are considered to be pretty stupid by the more wonky economist types, they don't create good incentives and they're rather regressive.  Both stick around because they are massively popular with voters.  And some of the other smaller expenditures are closely related to these, namely the state and local deductions and home capital gains exclusion.  So the recipients of the pork here are the taxpayers.  It's true that the pork skews towards wealthy taxpayers but that's not exactly surprising seeings as they're the ones with more income and it's income that is taxed, it's not exactly a revelation that tax breaks help the wealthy.

The other major deductions are mostly things that I would be happy to defend on a case-by-case basis such as pension exclusion and capital equipment depreciation.  While it's true that there are problems with the charitable contributions deduction, we just passed a major reform to clean that up a lot.  Foreign income deferral is infamous of course but guess what, that's a hotly debated political issue that major political players (Obama and Harry Reid for example) have spent a lot of time trying to get a reform though.  The only thing left is capital gains treatment, which is less controversial than foreign income deferral but that's probably because it isn't as big (yet).

While it's true that political connections can help the powerful get favorable treatment with tax law, it's arguably less so than with most areas of the law.  Look at the unmitigated corporate love fest that is copyright law.  While there is some pork in the tax law, it's mostly a case of the voters getting the political system they deserve.  A big part of it is knee jerk cynicism like you yourself showed.

[misko27]

Tax law is a good example of overly convoluted laws to benefit specific groups in power. That's not (entirely) the case everywhere, though.

Legalese is a tool, one able to be used for good and for evil.

Legalese is a necessary function in a world where our language is neither based on indisputable mathematical concepts, nor capable of building a time machine and simply asking the people who made the deal what the intent was. The "Corrupt a wish" thread is entirely based off of manipulating a p

On the 5th November the Million Mask March happened and the Mainstream Media didn't report this event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2vG3hQ_jCQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uoHl_GoIgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnWW4u_Y5fk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6BVU2Ogj5k
In response to the lack of coverage of this event by the Mainstream Media there will be a March against the Mainstream Media on the 16th November.
https://www.facebook.com/Awakenedcitizen89/posts/577154205684303
Also there is TPP which is basically worse than SOPA and PIPA.
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGLd5oeaCbU

Perhaps DC was so bored with Million Man Marches that they stopped caring. Also the Tea Party + Guy Fawkes makes more sense then it should.

Screw the whole idea behind it, if you cannot be taken seriously, there's no point in the idea.

Probably why the Nazis in Britain did such a bad job pre-WW2. Everyone laughed at their uniforms...

But Nazis have the sexiest uniforms o.O

Not pre-WWII.
Before

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[/q]
After
[spoiler]

For what reason do you people know this? When was the "Nazi Uniforms, Then and Now" segment on the fashion channel?

[kaijyuu]

stuff

I was mainly referring to this.

Don't jump to conclusions based on a single sentence, aye?

[mainiac]

stuff

I was mainly referring to this.

Don't jump to conclusions based on a single sentence, aye?

Look, while intuit certainly likes people paying them, the reason why the tax code is complex is because the voters have supported the politicians adding stuff to the tax code.  Just axing those two things I said would make it so millions of taxpayers would switch over to a simple W-2.

And like most Forbes articles, they are conflating pretty damn unrelated things.  Tax reform would simplify the process for your W-2 crowd of taxpayers.  Those aren't the people filing complicated tax returns and buying intuit software.  You shouldn't ever naively believe something in Forbes.  If it is a Forbes article assume there are lies of omission because there almost always are.

Cynicism is no substitute for actually learning about the issues.