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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 821947 times)

Sheb

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4410 on: November 12, 2013, 01:00:37 pm »

And all our wages are indexed for inflation.
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darkrider2

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4411 on: November 12, 2013, 02:17:34 pm »

Minimum wage has been someone conveniently forgotten about for a long time.

Moving to lower minimum wage would cause a massive backlash, and since raising it is against corporate interest, they've just ignored it and let inflation slowly mean the wage that IS there is not what it used to be.

And since minimum wage jobs are really the only thing available to me, I support raising it. THE STATE NOW DETERMINES YOUR WAGE, HAIL STALIN. Oh, sorry. *cough*

I just want to see an election year where the democrats throw every issue at the republicans at once, they'll be tripping up trying to remember all the talking points.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4412 on: November 12, 2013, 02:24:30 pm »

You jest, but an overwhelming campaign against their hypocrisy and the suffering they inflict on America would probably be very successful indeed.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Lagslayer

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4413 on: November 12, 2013, 03:25:42 pm »

they'll be tripping up trying to remember all the talking points.
You jest, but an overwhelming campaign against their hypocrisy and the suffering they inflict on America would probably be very successful indeed.
Who? The Democrats or the Republicans?

/snark

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4414 on: November 12, 2013, 03:53:47 pm »

I still at this time am willing to believe the Democrats at least mean well, even if they're craven pleaders. The Republicans are acting in bad faith. They openly want voter suppression and for (certain) Americans to suffer.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Owlbread

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4415 on: November 12, 2013, 04:30:31 pm »

The only answer to America's problems is radical, radical State Socialism. Everything from public transportation, industrial sites and energy companies to the land in Bush's possession should be nationalised and collectivised.

Health care shall be nationalised and made free from cradle to grave, education should be made free on any level. Bush, Cheney, Obama, Romney, the entirety of the political and financial establishments must be rounded up and put into camps where they will smash rocks into smaller rocks for eternity. The entire state system must be replaced with Soviet republics with elected workers' Soviets replacing every layer of government.

The army will become a people's army, officers replaced by proletarian, ideologically pure kommissars (no West Point graduates). Police shall become Guardians of the Revolution and will provide strong corporal punishment to those who go against the words of the Supreme Soviet.

Worship of God and praying in schools and even the celebration of Christmas shall be forbidden.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 04:32:34 pm by Owlbread »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4416 on: November 12, 2013, 04:39:23 pm »

Don't worry, in his wisdom, General Party Secretary Owlbread has replaced Christmas with a secular and socialist, but otherwise identical holiday called Marxmas. Class-neutral presents for everyone!
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Owlbread

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4417 on: November 12, 2013, 04:52:37 pm »

Sounded good until you banned Christmas.

COUNTER REVOLUTION!

What worker requires Christmas? It is merely a creation of the Capitalist, oppressive White Guard and the frantic Fascist Captains, united in common hatred of Socialism and bestial horror of the rising tide of the mass revolutionary movement. It is integral to the plan of the petty bourgeois mad dogs; they indoctrinate even working class children into the "benefits" of altruism and other opiatic distractions in a bid to pacify the worker's revolution.

Know this my comrades, the Fascist Octopus has sung its swan song.

Don't worry, in his wisdom, General Party Secretary Owlbread has replaced Christmas with a secular and socialist, but otherwise identical holiday called Marxmas. Class-neutral presents for everyone!

The great, jolly Father of the December Revolution will empower the working children and their families with practical gifts. The children will beam with glee and revolutionary fervour as they discover the lumps of coal in their workboots, allowing them to start work at the furnaces with greater productivity. However, the Supreme Soviet reiterates that regardless of your conduct the Father of the December Revolution cannot and will not deliver ration cards to your settlement as they are, regrettably, in short supply. The Supreme Soviet warns that those who continue to send in sheets of paper containing requests for decadent contraband items will be executed.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 05:02:55 pm by Owlbread »
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Lagslayer

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4418 on: November 12, 2013, 04:59:53 pm »

(Please forgive me if I start rambling on a tangent, again.)

And I don't believe either party means particularly well, and both are horribly corrupt in practice.

Either they:
1. both believe that their position is the only right one, and to compromise on any of their principals would be an abomination (which I mostly agree with. Your principals, your moral code of conduct, should not be tossed aside so readily). This leads to an impasse, where both parties, rather than nothing getting done, will at the very least fight to get their people/constituents the stuff they want, because that's the best anyone can hope for.
2. Are both in on the scheme together, and most of the bickering between parties is just a front for backroom deals. It's basically #1, but more sinister.

Most voters, I believe, are trying to do the "right" thing, at least in their limited perspective. The problem is, very few are willing to expand their perspective. Peer pressure doesn't help with that (You don't immediately condemn X? You must be one of them!). And even if they did try to understand, really understand and empathize with an opposing point of view, that doesn't mean they have to like it, accept it, or think it will work.

Like it or not, very little of the rhetoric on either side has been properly tested, because such social experiments would be so heavily frowned upon. Then there's how history is completely different depending on who is asked about it. And we all know that the majority isn't always "right" on an issue, either factually or opinionally (global warming, gun rights, etc.; pick your poison). Leaders are no different in that respect. And people always think their own opinions/facts are right, otherwise they wouldn't believe it. So much of political rhetoric is based on heresay and unknowable factors.

People in power, any sort of power, from policy making, to enforcement, interpretation, and information gathering, all have the ability to use their powers for the exact opposite goal as they were intended to be used. Gun control to keep people from killing each other? Gun control to keep people from rising up against oppressive government. Government banning bad foods? Government pre-packaged, mandatory rations. Government controlled healthcare paying for your hospital bills? Government healthcare selectively paying for certain hospital bills of their choosing. Protect the rights and liberties of everyone? Limits on personal freedom

So it comes down to one thing. Who do you trust? I, for one, see little reason to trust the politicians we have with much of their current power, let alone so much more. And while privately owned entities can also be corrupt, the power isn't automatically consolidated in one place, and it's theoretically easier for a greater number number of smaller entities to keep each other in check.


So what does all of it matter if you have to choose anyways? Well, it can mean fewer shouting matches that do nothing but waste time and resources, and make people angry.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 05:23:27 pm by Lagslayer »
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4419 on: November 12, 2013, 07:22:55 pm »

The falsehood that everyone is to blame in politics is a creation of the faux-'neutral' media.
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I am surrounded by flesh and bone, I am a temple of living. Maybe I'll maybe my life away.

Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth,
Card-carrying Liberaltarian

FearfulJesuit

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4420 on: November 12, 2013, 07:55:28 pm »

Gay marriage is now legal in Hawai'i. That's number 16, I think?
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4421 on: November 12, 2013, 07:57:12 pm »

Still needs to be signed, though that is definitely happening.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

misko27

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4422 on: November 12, 2013, 08:07:18 pm »

(Please forgive me if I start rambling on a tangent, again.)

And I don't believe either party means particularly well, and both are horribly corrupt in practice.

Either they:
1. both believe that their position is the only right one, and to compromise on any of their principals would be an abomination (which I mostly agree with. Your principals, your moral code of conduct, should not be tossed aside so readily). This leads to an impasse, where both parties, rather than nothing getting done, will at the very least fight to get their people/constituents the stuff they want, because that's the best anyone can hope for.
2. Are both in on the scheme together, and most of the bickering between parties is just a front for backroom deals. It's basically #1, but more sinister.

Most voters, I believe, are trying to do the "right" thing, at least in their limited perspective. The problem is, very few are willing to expand their perspective. Peer pressure doesn't help with that (You don't immediately condemn X? You must be one of them!). And even if they did try to understand, really understand and empathize with an opposing point of view, that doesn't mean they have to like it, accept it, or think it will work.

Like it or not, very little of the rhetoric on either side has been properly tested, because such social experiments would be so heavily frowned upon. Then there's how history is completely different depending on who is asked about it. And we all know that the majority isn't always "right" on an issue, either factually or opinionally (global warming, gun rights, etc.; pick your poison). Leaders are no different in that respect. And people always think their own opinions/facts are right, otherwise they wouldn't believe it. So much of political rhetoric is based on heresay and unknowable factors.

People in power, any sort of power, from policy making, to enforcement, interpretation, and information gathering, all have the ability to use their powers for the exact opposite goal as they were intended to be used. Gun control to keep people from killing each other? Gun control to keep people from rising up against oppressive government. Government banning bad foods? Government pre-packaged, mandatory rations. Government controlled healthcare paying for your hospital bills? Government healthcare selectively paying for certain hospital bills of their choosing. Protect the rights and liberties of everyone? Limits on personal freedom

So it comes down to one thing. Who do you trust? I, for one, see little reason to trust the politicians we have with much of their current power, let alone so much more. And while privately owned entities can also be corrupt, the power isn't automatically consolidated in one place, and it's theoretically easier for a greater number number of smaller entities to keep each other in check.


So what does all of it matter if you have to choose anyways? Well, it can mean fewer shouting matches that do nothing but waste time and resources, and make people angry.
I was going to write a few paragraphs on how every politician has to be morally bankrupt to be in politics, including for example the good US presidents, all of whom needed special political knowledge and skill to rise to the highest post in politics, and the method of achieving progress doesn't matter if progress is made, and that their greediness has no bearing on whether the policies they will implement and their administration; but I'm too tired too.
The only answer to America's problems is radical, radical State Socialism. Everything from public transportation, industrial sites and energy companies to the land in Bush's possession should be nationalised and collectivised.

Health care shall be nationalised and made free from cradle to grave, education should be made free on any level. Bush, Cheney, Obama, Romney, the entirety of the political and financial establishments must be rounded up and put into camps where they will smash rocks into smaller rocks for eternity. The entire state system must be replaced with Soviet republics with elected workers' Soviets replacing every layer of government.

The army will become a people's army, officers replaced by proletarian, ideologically pure kommissars (no West Point graduates). Police shall become Guardians of the Revolution and will provide strong corporal punishment to those who go against the words of the Supreme Soviet.

Worship of God and praying in schools and even the celebration of Christmas shall be forbidden.
The US military declares loyalty to the US constitution. The US military is the largest and most advanced military in the world. The US has a public militia (with military training, almost militia in name) in the form of the National Guard, and numerous others to help defend specific areas. The South is full of heavily armed militias who are literally waiting for the day a socialist foreigner comes to uproot the American government (well, a different one. Not Hyperbole, by the way.)

As for a peaceful version, well let me put it like this: I mentioned earlier that Congress is slightly less popular then a Socialist revolution. The contrapositive is that a Socialist revolution is slightly more popular then congress. Anything that has Congress-level approval ratings has no chance in the US.
Still needs to be signed, though that is definitely happening.
The bill will be signed in the morn. This comes on the heels of Illinois.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4423 on: November 12, 2013, 08:48:34 pm »

Chris Christie is going on a diet.

god why can't the primaries start already
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

mainiac

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4424 on: November 12, 2013, 11:30:03 pm »

even the celebration of Christmas shall be forbidden.

Well considering this nation's independence was first recognized with a celebration of the banning of Christmas, that's just returning to our roots.
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