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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Darvi]

Question, when can we rebrand the US as "U Suck"?

[Lord Shonus]

The real reason there's such a fuss about it? It was passed on Obama's watch, and he supported it. If a Democratic president found the Fountain of Youth, the Republicans would piss in it out of sheer spite and their extreme desire to make sure Democrats Never Look Good.

The GOP has been dying for a very long time now. They managed to save themselves in the 50s by jumping on the anti-communist wagon, and again in the 80s by jumping on the "moral majority", but both those wells are dry now. They've been trying to mine "fiscal responsibilty" since the Regan administration, but the simple fact that their bullshit economic policies don't work, and it is obvious that the party leadership are nothing but mouthpieces sucking up to thier corporate overlords, is souring that.

[Bauglir]

Nothing's affordable with a government shutdown in progress. I'm leery of making any claims about the practicality of the ACA while we have the Tea Party exemplifying the ol' mantra, "I believe that government is inefficient and wasteful, and if you elect me, I'll make sure I'm right." It's not just the shutdown that's the problem, it's the whole culture of automatic rejection that's sprouted up in the Republicans lately and paralyzed Congress. The shutdown's just the snappiest example to point to. But, in general, I'm not going to give any credence to claims that the ACA is too expensive when we've got a chunk of the government, at pretty much every level from local officials up through Congress, actively working to sabotage it at any cost.

But did anyone read what I mentioned about possible progress? Anyone?

Yeah, but none of us believe the Republicans will go for any of it.

[Baffler]

I read it, and think something will come of it. As I have stated many times previously, it's hard not to see this as another show of force that will stop short of actually fucking everything up. It accomplishes their objectives far more effectively this way, at least in the short term. And no, I don't see the GOP going away anytime soon. They're too firmly entrenched to even consider it, just like the Democrats are. It will take a pretty major upset to unseat either one of them.

[ed boy]

Question, when can we rebrand the US as "U Suck"?

When there's a joint US-UK government initiative.

[Morrigi]

And yes, the Democrats have to compromise, as the republicans have been offering to do. This is a republic, not a dictatorship. There is still considerable debate among the general public about whether the ACA is the right way to go, and it should not have been shoved through Congress like it was.

Forcing a "my way or the highway" approach as a political leader in regards to a generally ambiguous subject, while shutting down public services unnecessarily out of nothing more than spite, is the path to tyranny.

It is not the Republicans who are refusing to compromise here, and thus the blame cannot be laid entirely on them for the shutdown. The Republicans did not order additional security to detain and arrest World War II veterans attempting to visit a public memorial.

[PanH]

Question, when can we rebrand the US as "U Suck"?

When there's a joint US-UK government initiative.

I ... I have no words. That's beautiful.

[misko27]

Question, when can we rebrand the US as "U Suck"?

Any time, but when we do we'll stick a Hand flipping the bird on our flag and redesign the tanks to fire lasers; and then start invading.

And I don't think any nation on earth can stand up to lasers. The Navy, the Army, they've been testing and planning for years. This, and this come to mind.

And yes, the Democrats have to compromise, as the republicans have been offering to do. This is a republic, not a dictatorship. There is still considerable debate among the general public about whether the ACA is the right way to go, and it should not have been shoved through Congress like it was.

Forcing a "my way or the highway" approach as a political leader in regards to a generally ambiguous subject, while shutting down public services unnecessarily out of nothing more than spite, is the path to tyranny.

It is not the Republicans who are refusing to compromise here, and thus the blame cannot be laid entirely on them for the shutdown. The Republicans did not order additional security to detain and arrest World War II veterans attempting to visit a public memorial.

You aren't getting it. You are concerned with the ACA, the democrats refuse anything that doesn't strictly fund the government. And as for the memorial, no one should be allowed if the staff have left, since vandals are a thing, and so are terrorists. Moreover, the American public blame the republicans, and so these are the facts. (I feel this was poorly worded).

Oh did anyone hear about the Salmonella outbreak? Now strain, now in 18 states, antibiotic resistant to boot. Of course the CDC and FDA are otherwise disposed.

[Baffler]

I don't imagine there will be much argument against bringing them back. That constitutes a risk to human life, after all.

[Morrigi]

Question, when can we rebrand the US as "U Suck"?

Any time, but when we do we'll stick a Hand flipping the bird on our flag and redesign the tanks to fire lasers; and then start invading.


And I don't think any nation on earth can stand up to lasers. The Navy, the Army, they've been testing and planning for years. This, and this come to mind.

And yes, the Democrats have to compromise, as the republicans have been offering to do. This is a republic, not a dictatorship. There is still considerable debate among the general public about whether the ACA is the right way to go, and it should not have been shoved through Congress like it was.

Forcing a "my way or the highway" approach as a political leader in regards to a generally ambiguous subject, while shutting down public services unnecessarily out of nothing more than spite, is the path to tyranny.

It is not the Republicans who are refusing to compromise here, and thus the blame cannot be laid entirely on them for the shutdown. The Republicans did not order additional security to detain and arrest World War II veterans attempting to visit a public memorial.

You aren't getting it. You are concerned with the ACA, the democrats refuse anything that doesn't strictly fund the government. And as for the memorial, no one should be allowed if the staff have left, since vandals are a thing, and so are terrorists. Moreover, the American public blame the republicans, and so these are the facts.


Oh did anyone hear about the Salmonella outbreak? Now strain, now in 18 states, antibiotic resistant to boot. Of course the CDC and FDA are otherwise disposed.

Last I checked, the ACA was a part of the budget. And the American public are routinely misled by the mass media, liberal and conservative alike. As for security concerns, it's probably costing more to keep guards posted 24/7 around the memorial than to keep the damn thing open in the first place.

[Bauglir]

Forcing a "my way or the highway" approach as a political leader in regards to a generally ambiguous subject, while shutting down public services unnecessarily out of nothing more than spite, is the path to tyranny.

Agreed. This is why it was so incredibly irresponsible of the Republicans to block any funding bill that didn't meet their ill-defined demands. It's not the Democrats who're looking at this as a strategy for extortion.

[lue]

Last I checked, the ACA was a part of the budget. And the American public are routinely misled by the mass media, liberal and conservative alike. As for security concerns, it's probably costing more to keep guards posted 24/7 around the memorial than to keep the damn thing open in the first place.

Yes, but the ACA is mandatory spending, while the shutdown and the CR that would stop it affects discretionary spending. I'm not sure where the misleading you're referring to is, aside from not discussing the different kinds of spending and how the ACA is not affected. They aren't fundamentally misinforming people, merely giving you the important points, as far as I can tell.

It's like when people talked about "People in the House voting to shutdown the government" pre-shutdown. They were actually voting on a CR bill that defunded the ACA. Since neither the Senate nor the President would ever go for it, the effect would be a shutdown. This fact was obvious well in advance. So while the vote wasn't explicitly for shutting down the government, it effectively was, because the House wouldn't consider a clean CR alternative, only the never-happening defund-ACA CR.

As for the guards, I imagine they don't want to give people free reign over a normally preserved national park. That's kinda what the NPS was designed to stop in the first place, in areas that should be preserved.

[mainiac]

And yes, the Democrats have to compromise, as the republicans have been offering to do.

Offering to stop being destructive if someone gives you what you want and you give them nothing they want isn't compromise.

And you know when the democrats compromised?  Last time.  And then the republicans come back to the well again.  We won't have functional government until the republicans stop this behavior.  There is nothing the democrats can do, the republicans will always want more.

[Morrigi]

Forcing a "my way or the highway" approach as a political leader in regards to a generally ambiguous subject, while shutting down public services unnecessarily out of nothing more than spite, is the path to tyranny.

Agreed. This is why it was so incredibly irresponsible of the Republicans to block any funding bill that didn't meet their ill-defined demands. It's not the Democrats who're looking at this as a strategy for extortion.

It goes both ways. Exactly the same thing can be said about Obama.

[Morrigi]

And yes, the Democrats have to compromise, as the republicans have been offering to do.

Offering to stop being destructive if someone gives you what you want and you give them nothing they want isn't compromise.

And you know when the democrats compromised?  Last time.  And then the republicans come back to the well again.  We won't have functional government until the republicans stop this behavior.  There is nothing the democrats can do, the republicans will always want more.

Again, the same thing can be said of the democrats.