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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Sheb]

I know, just wanted to mislead people a bit. :p

[mainiac]

However, if we returned to tax rates relatively similar to what we had 40 years ago, then yes. The budget could be balanced and debt could eventually wind down.

That's a bit pessimistic, look at these charts: http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44521

Debt levels over GDP will start to fall again in 2015 or 2016.  Then they start to rise again due to healthcare costs in Medicare.  But those medicare numbers assume that congress is pretty damn incompetent.  Sure congress is pretty damn incompetent, but what's to say that will continue forever?  I think either congress get's it's act together or we will have a major crisis.  And if congress get's it's act together, then debt goes back to a sustainable course and starts inching downwards.

[RedKing]

I'm not the type to save up until I'm 70 to buy a house without taking out a loan, but I would certainly like to know that the expenses incurred are within my means.

You are obviously not an American. 

[freeformschooler]

Man, one thing I really like about Obamacare is being able to stay on your parents' insurance until 26. My parents lucked out insurance-wise, and I don't see myself getting a job with BCBS or anything for quite a while.

[Scoops Novel]

Presuming that defaulting on the debt ceiling is sensationalism, and that no democracy is so good that idiots actually run things, why have we got this far?

[PTTG??]

Well, it probably goes back to the supreme court being completely bought out and giving corporations nearly direct control of who gets elected.

[wierd]

If that were the case, you would think that the corporate masters who have bought congress critters would be telling them flat out to fix this issue NOW, and NOT default, because defaulting the dollar would RUIN EVERYONE, including the corporate masters.

Only ideological tools would stand to gain anything from defaulting the dollar.

[Scoops Novel]

So long as we don't get bogged down in x is so durr, please continue.

[Iceblaster]

While I enjoy reading this, what does 'defaulting the dollar' in this situation mean?

[wierd]

It just woke up, so apologies.

Defaulting on the US debt, resulting in the rapid devaluation of the dollar due to loss of trust and investments going bananas.

Most multinational corporations have liquidities in the form of USD. If the currency joins the tidybowl man in oblivion at the sewerage treatment center, then they stand to get hammered hard by foriegn competitors who stayed using their own national currencies. That means allowing any politicians they may or may not have bought and paid for to continue down this road is contrary to their financial interests. In addition to that, in the long term, the resulting shockwaves of investments globally going bananas from said default will damage their long term goals and ability to continue operating, as economies go into a very dark recession, and consumer spending drops like a gold brick over jupiter.

[Scoops Novel]

Are Is self-destructive impulses on the part of the republicans particularly ridiculous?

[SalmonGod]

I still can't wrap my head around this crap.  No matter how many ways I try to look at it, it still appears ludicrous to me.  It always boils down to this: 

The economy is a system for deciding who gets what and who gets to tell others what to do.  This system is so complicated that almost nobody understands it.  A large portion of labor in the modern world is dedicated to nothing but processing everything through it or simply toying with it. 

But if these imaginary numbers assigns to objects and people get screwed up and lose a bit of their made-up meaning, everybody somehow becomes incapable of doing anything and the world goes to shit.

For as intelligent as our species is, it's also incredibly stupid.  If the economy completely vanished tomorrow, you know what I would do?  Go to work.  Do all the things I normally do, minus all the imaginary number game stuff.  I don't need imaginary numbers or the people who hoard them to tell me that society operates because I work.  I would hope I'm not the only one.

[wierd]

Historical precident indicates that doing that wont be very successful, but it probably would be about the only thing you COULD do, aside from buying foriegn currency right now, waiting for the default, then selling it back for wheelbarrows full of Benjamins.

The issue is that because there are so many people in the world, there simply is NOT enough "hard" currency for trade. You simply cant cut gold that small.  Instead, paper currency is based on promise of repayment. AKA, "Debt".  The US dollar is valuable, because it represents the promise of repayment through labors, goods, and services. It is a debt note.

If the US defaults on its debts, then the promises of the US and its workers diminishes in real value, making the currency useless.  The promises of a deadbeat.

It does not matter how hard you work, if people dont value the work you do.

[10ebbor10]

On a side note, and this might have been brought up earlier, but anyway.

I recently read that the previous shutdown has a total economic damage of approximately 1% of the GDP. That one lasted 21 days, and hopefully this one won't last that long. (Because then we're having other things to worry about.)

[Sheb]

SalmonGod, the "imaginary number" is how we convey information within the system. It's unsurprising the system break down if you remove it.