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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Descan]

Really, all you can hope for is he suspends congress, forces a re-election for all of the critters, and forces re-districting of all the HoR and Senate districts to be non-gerrymander'd via algorithm.

Are you out of your mind? That's how dictators start, not even mentioning it being completely illegal.

Edit: Are Senate seats gerrymander'd? If not, that might not be required...

Everything is more or less gerrymandered. It's all a game of not getting called out on it.

Well, of course the next step in this perfect world would be him resigning and the new, less-gerrymander'd, not-as-crazy-as-the-last congress writes a law preventing that from happening ever again, if he isn't tossed in jail first.

Also, I don't see how getting a non-corrupted (you can't corrupt an algorithm) congress full of not-crazies with just slightly less power (depends on how doing a highly illegal recall and re-election of congress ends up being used as precedent) ends up with Dictator.

[Strife26]

So, from what I understand, I'm getting the paycheck that I'm supposed to get tomorrow, but that my next one is in question?

Man, this politics stuff kinda sucks.

[Mephansteras]

Man, this politics stuff kinda sucks.

That pretty much sums it up, yes.

[misko27]

Really, all you can hope for is he suspends congress, forces a re-election for all of the critters, and forces re-districting of all the HoR and Senate districts to be non-gerrymander'd via algorithm.

>_>

Edit: Are Senate seats gerrymander'd? If not, that might not be required...

There are exactly 2 seats to a state, and elections are held state-wide. Given that the states of lower population density run more conservative, and Democrats currently control the Senate,and  if Democrats are usually not the gerrymanderers, or at least to a lesser degree (which is considered to be the case) it stands to reason they aren't as Gerrymandered. Also I believe the Democrats won the Popular Vote in the House last election.

Really, all you can hope for is he suspends congress, forces a re-election for all of the critters, and forces re-districting of all the HoR and Senate districts to be non-gerrymander'd via algorithm.

Are you out of your mind? That's how dictators start, not even mentioning it being completely illegal.

Edit: Are Senate seats gerrymander'd? If not, that might not be required...

Everything is more or less gerrymandered. It's all a game of not getting called out on it.

Well, of course the next step in this perfect world would be him resigning and the new, less-gerrymander'd, not-as-crazy-as-the-last congress writes a law preventing that from happening ever again, if he isn't tossed in jail first.

Also, I don't see how getting a non-corrupted (you can't corrupt an algorithm) congress full of not-crazies with just slightly less power (depends on how doing a highly illegal recall and re-election of congress ends up being used as precedent) ends up with Dictator.

The Courts have often re-written electoral districting if a particular one is struck down. I believe, and don't quote me on this, that Texas' was struck down and rewritten, but it didn't really change anything because the chances of Democrats winning their were extremely small even in a fair election.

But on to more likely things, Obama does face the problem of possibly needing the Violate the Constitution in order to prevent US Economic collapse. None of his options are good on that front actually. Actually, almost all of his options violate the constitution, except the one that sends the world into depression.

Again, I do feel the need to remind you guys that while the republicans were not elected by everyone, they were elected by a sizable minority, which would be very angry at their votes becoming meaningless. That a sizable minority thinks that this is OK is not good, but that's Democracy for you.

So, from what I understand, I'm getting the paycheck that I'm supposed to get tomorrow, but that my next one is in question?

Man, this politics stuff kinda sucks.

That depends. Military personnel are considered essential for what I believe are obvious reasons. Civilian contractors aren't. There's a grey line.

[FearfulJesuit]

Cincinnati are remarkably rare, and Obama isn't one of them.

[RedKing]

So, from what I understand, I'm getting the paycheck that I'm supposed to get tomorrow, but that my next one is in question?

Man, this politics stuff kinda sucks.

Congress passed a bill yesterday ensuring that military pay would still be issued in the event of a shutdown. Ted Cruz even commended Harry Reid for passing it in the Senate. (Which goes further to show that Cruz isn't an ideologue so much as a self-aggrandizing demagogue. He doesn't really believe any of the shit spewed out of his mouth, it's all for Tea Party consumption and getting himself primary votes in 2016.

Cincinnati are remarkably rare, and Obama isn't one of them.

Having been to Cincinnati, we don't WANT more than one of them. 

[Descan]

@Misko re: Strife : This is true, but one of the things that the Republicans put into the bill that this whole thing revolves around is a stipulation that military personal income would not be affected if there is a shutdown.

If they felt the need to put that in, then that probably means that military personal income will be affected as-is.

Edit: Ah, that went through? Well that's good.

Re: Democracy and the minority that elected the republicans: This is true, but via gerrymandering it means a sizeable minority also didn't get their voices heard, at least proportionately. Having 70% of a population represented by 1 person and the other 30 represented by 4 others isn't exactly fair, when each of those representatives only have one vote.

[RedKing]

Descan: I think what they're saying is that even though the system is broken, breaking it further to fix it would set a bad precedent.

Me, I'm not so sure anymore. Lincoln shat all over the Constitution and we got out okay. Made a damned big statue of the guy for it too.

[FearfulJesuit]

Minute-by-minute updates of the looming trainwreck, with a special appearance from Michelle Bachmann, who's mad...because the rest of the Tea Party is milquetoast and cowardly enough not to demand a full repeal of Obamacare.

And to think, just a week and a half ago or so I was bored because Washington wasn't doing anything...

[SalmonGod]

Descan: I think what they're saying is that even though the system is broken, breaking it further to fix it would set a bad precedent.

Me, I'm not so sure anymore. Lincoln shat all over the Constitution and we got out okay. Made a damned big statue of the guy for it too.

I agree... but unfortunately, I don't think Obama is the guy we need to do that...  I have zero faith in him.

[RedKing]

Descan: I think what they're saying is that even though the system is broken, breaking it further to fix it would set a bad precedent.

Me, I'm not so sure anymore. Lincoln shat all over the Constitution and we got out okay. Made a damned big statue of the guy for it too.

I agree... but unfortunately, I don't think Obama is the guy we need to do that...  I have zero faith in him.

Sadly, I agree. He inherited too much power in the surveillance realm, and hasn't shown any impetus of divesting himself of it.


EDIT: Oh hey cool....Republican infighting.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) has openly broken ranks with his party's plan to again pass budget legislation attacking Obamacare, saying he would vote against Republicans' latest iteration of a continuing resolution—and blasting the highest-profile member of the "Defund Obamacare" movement. Chris Moody of Yahoo writes: "King [said] that if the government did shut down, one man would be responsible. 'Ted Cruz should be blamed,' King said. 'And anybody that follows him.'"

tl;dr = Asshole calls asshole an asshole.

[Descan]

I don't care who does it, as long as they resign afterwards. Possibly getting immunity if I had my way, considering it* -needs- to happen, but still.

I don't exactly have faith that Obama would resign after, though. Or un-gerrymander the districts. Or allow the congress-critters a re-election if he did disband the current caucus. Possibly impeached if he didn't resign, though who would do the impeaching, I don't know.

*It being at the very least an un-gerrymandering. I would -prefer- if you guys got rid of your current congress ASAP, but as long as they'll eventually go away in favour of a more democratic congress, I'd be (grudgingly) happy.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Descan, let me give you a play-by-play of how this would go.

1. Obama declares Congress dissolved and lays out his plan.

2. Everybody goes apeshit and starts rioting because the President just took over the government (and most of the Americans of this board would be among them).

3. A General takes down Obama's Secret Service and arrests him. Said General then declares martial law because of the rioting.

4. America is now either a dictatorship or so fractured Somalia looks like a paradise. Good job there, bucko.

[RedKing]

If there's one bright spot out of all this, it's that any talk of "an Imperial Presidency" (i.e. saying Obama has way too much power and acts like a dictator) is laughable given the current scenario. If anything, it shows how fucked-up our system is when a minority of the opposition party that only controls one house of the legislature....can fucking bring the government to a screeching halt.

If this were an Imperial presidency, or a dictatorship, John Boehner would be on a plane to Gitmo, or somewhere in the Potomac. Or "resigning for health reasons, effective immediately". Hell, in many functioning (I use the term loosely) democracies, he'd just dissolve Congress and call for new elections.


@MSH: Hmm.....which general? Depending on who it was, I'd consider it....

You also have to consider what Miley Cyrus is doing. There would probably be more outrage nationally over her twerking than there would be over violations of the Constitution.

[misko27]

Congress has hit 10% approval in a new CNN Poll, the lowest ever. It makes you wonder, "Who is the 10%?".


Anyway, Obama has actually not had any role in the recent crisis, appearantly preferring negotiating with Iran to dealing with Congress' latest trouble. He actually hasn't spoken to any in the Republican leadership until yesterday.


Anyway, a brief bit of history and news. Since yesterday, after the House decided a new and stupid CR bill to fund the government, the Senate took a recess until this afternoon, opening accusations against Harry Reid (Democrat in charge of Senate) of delaying (to me, it's more likely he wants to force them to make a decision). Now the Senate is swatting away the stream of amendments the House is passing, including the most recent one, "Delay Individual mandate and cut funding for Congressional healthcare", which is expected to die in the Senate very soon.


As it seems increasingly likely, the Shutdown is being looked at more thoroughly, and it would seem the effects will be unlike the Sequestration in that they are swift and immediate, with even more problems continually added onto a already bad situation as time goes on. For example, Veteran's Benefits will slow, continuing until late October, when they stop entirely.

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) has openly broken ranks with his party's plan to again pass budget legislation attacking Obamacare, saying he would vote against Republicans' latest iteration of a continuing resolution—and blasting the highest-profile member of the "Defund Obamacare" movement. Chris Moody of Yahoo writes: "King [said] that if the government did shut down, one man would be responsible. 'Ted Cruz should be blamed,' King said. 'And anybody that follows him.'"

tl;dr = Asshole calls asshole an asshole.

I must say I respect anyone, no matter their views, hell, especially if they're a conservative, who is willing to stand up and say "No, wait, I hate Obamacare, but this is fucking stupid". A increasingly large number are doing that. If nothing else, "The enemy of my Enemy is someone who I can manipulate into pursuing my interests for me".