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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[SalmonGod]

I understand that they're facing risks and want to be safe, but they take it to such extremes.  There has to be a balance.  Why do we equip them with all this fancy hardware, anyway?  Isn't it to give them more options and safety measures to work with when dealing with dangerous situations?  What is the point if they're still going to respond with a storm of bullets 100% of the time, regardless?

[Frumple]

It's one of those where I'm not going to say the police were obviously in the wrong, but I seriously question why things need to be handled the way they were.  What was the nature of this "domestic disturbance"?  Was he posing an immediate danger to anyone?  I've read two articles about this already, and my impression is he just had himself locked in a room and wasn't cooperating.

The guy had brandished on non-police officers* (so immediate danger, yes), and was apparently somewhat actively firing on the police both before (through the door when the police identified themselves) and after they gassed the room. Even if the fellow wasn't hitting the cops with bullets, if someone's firing... even if they're missing, they are most definitely an immediate danger to everyone in the immediate vicinity. Walls don't always stop bullets and ricochets are a thing, and if someone's firing they almost certainly need to be stopped before a shot flies into someone.

It almost certainly could have been handled better, though. Pumping gas into the place of someone obviously hostile and agitated in the hope that it'd cause the guy to surrender was just... just goddamn stupid. It'd be interesting to know what the negotiations amounted to, too, though I imagine the public will never find out.

*The arkansas piece. Domestic disturbance in question was the old fellow pointing a weapon at people.

[Mephansteras]

Yeah. I wouldn't say they handled the situation well, but someone threatening people with a gun and then firing at officers as soon as they show up...can't say that shooting him really counts as your typical police brutality case.

[Helgoland]

Use of deadly force was probably justified, but... Tear gas? Tasers? There's quite a chance these could have killed him too, but still...

[Chaoswizkid]

Use of deadly force was justified as long as the situation unfolded like they said it did. It's unreasonable to ask them to try and otherwise incapacitate someone who is trying to kill them unless their value alive is worth the risk and this didn't sound like it.

[Culise]

Use of deadly force was probably justified, but... Tear gas? Tasers? There's quite a chance these could have killed him too, but still...

Well, tasers aside, the article says they pumped gas into the room after negotiations failed, which was what prompted him to try to unload a second round into the police officers responsible.  I would have assumed it was tear gas; I can't imagine they would have used blister gas or other anti-riot gear to deal with a single old man with a handgun, and while I'm no expert, I don't know what other major gases are options in this circumstance. 

[Pnx]

Well, tasers aside, the article says they pumped gas into the room after negotiations failed, which was what prompted him to try to unload a second round into the police officers responsible.  I would have assumed it was tear gas; I can't imagine they would have used blister gas or other anti-riot gear to deal with a single old man with a handgun, and while I'm no expert, I don't know what other major gases are options in this circumstance.

Well, I'd assume you wouldn't use a blister gas because as far as I know any agent that causes burns on the skin would also cause burns in the throat and lungs when inhaled, thereby causing them to suffocate.

[Owlbread]

I think they would have had to be very careful about what kind of gas they were using so they didn't kill him. He's 107 for god's sake.

[Pnx]

I think they would have had to be very careful about what kind of gas they were using so they didn't kill him. He's 107 for god's sake.

Wow, some people really will let you get away with anything when you're old.

[Culise]

Well, tasers aside, the article says they pumped gas into the room after negotiations failed, which was what prompted him to try to unload a second round into the police officers responsible.  I would have assumed it was tear gas; I can't imagine they would have used blister gas or other anti-riot gear to deal with a single old man with a handgun, and while I'm no expert, I don't know what other major gases are options in this circumstance.

Well, I'd assume you wouldn't use a blister gas because as far as I know any agent that causes burns on the skin would also cause burns in the throat and lungs when inhaled, thereby causing them to suffocate.

Indeed.  I don't think it's even used for riots often in first world countries, but it's the only other thing I could think of that "gas" could refer to. 

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They could have tried to wait him out. 107-year-olds are not particularly known for their stamina.

[SalmonGod]

They could have tried to wait him out. 107-year-olds are not particularly known for their stamina.

That's what I was saying... And I understand Frumple's response that bullets go through walls and ricochet and the like... but even so, I still find it hard to believe that an area couldn't be blocked off to make the situation 99.999999% safe.

I'm not demonizing the police in this case.  It's not a clear example of anything wrong.  I do think it's another example of an unfortunate situation being rushed to conclusion, with the final decision being "let's kill this guy to prevent the off-chance of someone getting hurt"...

[Owlbread]

Wow, some people really will let you get away with anything when you're old.

I would be saying the same thing if he was a physically weak person of any other age. I would also be asking similar questions if he was a perfectly healthy person.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

An interesting piece on Millennial politics.

[Baffler]

It annoyed me that the author spent so much time talking about the 2016 presidential election, but other than that it was definitely worth reading.