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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[10ebbor10]

If we're aiming to get 80% RES by 2020 I think we'll be the most green country in the whole EU. Latvia's going all at it with their 40% goal but we shall leave them in the dust.

That is assuming that you'll cut yourself of before 2020, right. Because well, at the moment the UK is at a pitiful 3.3% (Intermediate goal 4%, total goal 13%)

You're doing worse than Belgium.

On a side note, Latvia won't be your primary concurrent. (They're failing their goals already, so ...) Sweden will be, with almost 50% green power now. (They kinda already reached their goals for 2020)

[Owlbread]

That is assuming that you'll cut yourself of before 2020, right. Because well, at the moment the UK is at a pitiful 3.3% (Intermediate goal 4%, total goal 13%)

You're doing worse than Belgium.

The UK are terrible, but Scotland actually has a renewable consumption of roughly 35%. Management of renewable energy and all that is a devolved power, so even if Scotland stays British we'll be one of the most green countries in the EU by 2020. Green defined by % RES share, that is.

[Sheb]

Hu-Hum!

Anyway, Scotland has it easy: scarcely populated, lots of coastline and wind (for offshore wind power), and mountains to install dams to store the energy.

[Owlbread]

Hu-Hum!

Anyway, Scotland has it easy: scarcely populated, lots of coastline and wind (for offshore wind power), and mountains to install dams to store the energy.

Oh fuck you Portugal.

I never thought I'd say that, but fuck you. That said I challenge you to find anyone better.

[GlyphGryph]

Well, I was referring to solar on private houses.

There is no reason you can't set up a frame to put the solar panels on, on private houses. This isn't even uncommon. You don't always need to, for sure, but I suspect no one was actually bothering to run the numbers and figure out when they should or shouldn't. Again, it sound like the problem was incompetence more than anything else. In situations where the panels are being tied into the grid (as it sounds like they were in Belgium), you might even want PV tracking on top of a frame, although (again) it's situational.

[10ebbor10]

Well, I was referring to solar on private houses.

There is no reason you can't set up a frame to put the solar panels on, on private houses. This isn't even uncommon. You don't always need to, for sure, but I suspect no one was actually bothering to run the numbers and figure out when they should or shouldn't. Again, it sound like the problem was incompetence more than anything else. In situations where the panels are being tied into the grid (as it sounds like they were in Belgium), you might even want PV tracking on top of a frame, although (again) it's situational.

((Why wouldn't you tie them into the grid? Especially in Belgium, where the energy producents are forced to buy homeproduced green power.))

On another note, Belgium is an endless aglomeration of old townhouses. Doubt the roof'll be able to support a tracking unit. (Or that you neighbour will like it, as the tracking unit will need to be fairly high to overcome the elevation of the roof so you neighbours migth complain).

Then there's still the fact that Belgium has the solar suitability of Alaska.

Hu-Hum!

Anyway, Scotland has it easy: scarcely populated, lots of coastline and wind (for offshore wind power), and mountains to install dams to store the energy.

Oh fuck you Portugal.

I never thought I'd say that, but fuck you. That said I challenge you to find anyone better.

According to EU numbers, Portugal is a little over 24%. So unless they managed to find 50% of green power in 3 years, something strange is going on here.

Edit: It's quite funny that American thread is discussing EU green power, while the EU thread is discussing American law.

[lemon10]

• Hydro-electric power accounted for 37% of total electricity generation. Remarkably, there was a 312% increase compared with last year.
• Wind generated electricity reached a new record high accounting for 27% of total electricity generation. The year on year increase in this sector was 60%.
• Solar energy supplied a minuscule 0.7% in 2012 and no figures are yet available for 2013. Clearly, given Portugal’s favourable position in south west Europe with a generally sunny disposition, there may be scope for solar power contributing more to the renewable energy mix in the future.

Assuming both of the bolded statements are true, then it isn't surprising for there to be a 50% growth in 3 years.

[GlyphGryph]

((Why wouldn't you tie them into the grid? Especially in Belgium, where the energy producents are forced to buy homeproduced green power.))

One of the most popular areas for solar power has always been the cost savings from not having to connect to the grid at all. Obviously this isn't an issue for houses where the infrastructure is already in place, but it can get incredibly expensive for new development in places outside of Belgium. It's often very tempting to just set up a bunch of solar panels and not have to worry about the grid at all.

(Also, it means if the grid goes down you still have power)

Doubt the roof'll be able to support a tracking unit.

Situational, of course. Tracking units really shouldn't be that heavy for small arrays, though. I'm not sure if tracking units are appropriate for belgium anyway, they might not be, but again: it would be situational, and I get the feeling no one in Belgium was ever bothered to figure out what those situations might be.

Hey, at least it's not Italy, where the biggest problem is laws that are actively being passed AGAINST solar power, which a great many people want because it makes economic sense. Haha. (They didn't want to pay the subsidies, so rather than stop paying the subsidies they passed laws against setting up solar power)

[Sheb]

No, but tracking units are ugly and people don't want that on their roofs.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

No, but tracking units are ugly and people don't want that on their roofs.

If this is the price of progress so far, I feel like tracking units on roofs would be a better price to pay.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't know where people get this obsession with the appearance of solar and wind. I think they look sleek and futuristic (in part because they are).

It's so baffling that I've almost accepted the conspiracy theory that people only hate them because fossil fuel companies spread the idea that they look horrible.

[GlyphGryph]

That's always what the argument comes down to, isn't it? "I'm not used to this thing, so it's ugly, so I don't want it".

Personally, I've never seen an ugly tracking unit. They are like giant glorious sunflower machines. But considering several offshore wind power plants have been shut down here for being "too ugly", I can certainly see how people would be that bloody stupid.

I'd suggest that those who think they are ugly simply not get them or (if the benefit isn't worth it for non-mounted or non-tracking units) not get them at all. But I highly suspect you live in one of those miserable places where the taste of a persons neighbours is more important than the taste of the person who owns the property.

Having had to live in some incredibly ugly places where the ugly was actively enforced and good-looking stuff (that people hadn't seen before and thus immediately rejected as unfamiliar) was outright banned. It's a sad but all too common fate.

Again, the problem seems to be that none of these considerations were actually taken into account. The Belgium solar program seems to have effectively amounted to no one making any reasonable decisions at any point in the process, is my point, not that some people might not like them. If they weren't worth installing for whatever reason, they shouldn't have been installed.

[10ebbor10]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Actually quite a nice image actually.

Also, it's not like anything dangerous ever happened there. The danger of nuclear power plants is gravely overstated.

To be fair, green, gray and fossil fuel power can destroy the local environement. But sadly, the Ugly argument drowns these out, and so you end up with bad descisions.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

To be fair, green, gray and fossil fuel power can destroy the local environement.

Find me one example of solar energy impacting a local ecosystem negatively. I'll give you time.

[GlyphGryph]

Well, Ugly obviously doesn't matter when it happens somewhere else, right? Out of sight, out of mind! And if it's been around for a while, all the better, because we've learned to ignore it in plain sight too, so it's not really ugly at all.

(blech)

Mict - The mines for the materials in solar cells do have some serious potential to be ecologically damaging. So I'm pretty sure examples wouldn't be hard to come by.